Chat log of community meeting on 17th January 2011

[12:03] Kered Rickena: Ok as Tori has been delayed can we start with apoligies
[12:04] Kered Rickena: i have one from commander
[12:04] Aseret Quintessa: Apologies from Dee she is working till later
[12:04] Kered Rickena: thanks
[12:04] Kered Rickena: ok Shall we start with item 2 on the agenda
[12:05] Kered Rickena: What do we want to tell/ask of Elsa on Friday ?
[12:05] Prash Mavendorf: that outopia rocks?
[12:05] Aseret Quintessa: thats a difficult one as there are so many different opinions
[12:06] Kered Rickena: i agree but anything else we want to ask
[12:06] Jonno Stromfield: first question is do we want to run the island ourselves. I think we should be able to tell her that by Friday
[12:06] Jonno Stromfield: just because the OU have made the offer, doesn't mean we have to say yes
[12:07] Kered Rickena: is there another option
[12:07] Jonno Stromfield: yes, we say no
[12:07] Hennamono Morpork: Who else would?
[12:07] Kered Rickena: they have said no more funding
[12:07] Aseret Quintessa: but then OUtopia goes
[12:07] Jonno Stromfield: my guess is no-one, Elsa will turn it into a sandbox and that'll be it
[12:07] Jonno Stromfield: I want to say yes formally, that's all
[12:08] Aseret Quintessa: yes although I think the sim would go?
[12:08] Kered Rickena: so we do then
[12:08] Jonno Stromfield: I do
[12:08] Elsbeth Biedermann: I would like to see us try run OUtopia ourselves
[12:08] Kered Rickena: ok so a show of hands then
[12:08] Kered Rickena: in favour
[12:08] Elsbeth Biedermann: aye
[12:08] Jonno Stromfield: Hey!
[12:08] Aseret Quintessa: holds hand up
[12:08] Prash Mavendorf: can we ask for a 3 month trial run to see if we can manage the island ourselves?
[12:09] Erich Templar: Aye
[12:09] Hennamono Morpork sticks a paw up
[12:09] MarionGE Resident: holds up hand
[12:09] Erich Templar: Good thought, Prash
[12:09] Leornian Naidoo: hands in air
[12:09] Prash Mavendorf: *sticks finger in nose*
[12:09] Jonno Stromfield: there's always one
[12:09] Prash Mavendorf: yep.
[12:09] Prash Mavendorf: sorry, i missed the air. lol.
[12:09] Erich Templar: OU still pays for the island? Is that true?
[12:10] Kered Rickena: yes
[12:10] Prash Mavendorf: until the end of the year.
[12:10] Kered Rickena: and will continue if it proves useful to student
[12:10] Erich Templar: Ah!
[12:10] Jonno Stromfield: so do we need a formal vote Mr Chairman or is it overwhelming enough a majority?
[12:10] Prash Mavendorf: agreed.
[12:10] Kered Rickena: think thast passed
[12:10] Prash Mavendorf: if we can self-manage well in 3 months, then we can ask for permanent self-governance.
[12:11] Jonno Stromfield: they want to dump it on us in march, prash
[12:11] Jonno Stromfield: hand held until July
[12:11] Kacey LittleBoots: what happens at the end of the year when OU stop paying for the island
[12:11] MarionGE Resident: Might take more than 3 months to work out the kinks
[12:11] Kered Rickena: ok any other questions for elsa
[12:11] Aseret Quintessa: they would keep it Kacey if its working here
[12:11] Kered Rickena: if its useful they will continue to pay
[12:12] Prash Mavendorf: there must be some flexibility in when a proper handover can be done.
[12:12] Kered Rickena: by july
[12:12] Jonno Stromfield: What permissions do the OU plan to devolve to us
[12:12] Kered Rickena: all
[12:12] Kered Rickena: as far as i know
[12:12] Jonno Stromfield: okay, that's already been said has it?
[12:12] Kered Rickena: yes we will have conmtrol
[12:13] Jonno Stromfield: If they have said all, fine, otherwise best to ask to make sure
[12:13] Hennamono Morpork: What happens if we do something they don't approve of? Will they just wrest control back?
[12:13] Jonno Stromfield: good question
[12:14] Prash Mavendorf: there has to be some clause that says that they either have the final say or have the right to have control back.
[12:14] Jonno Stromfield: they pay - they can just do it
[12:14] Leornian Naidoo: What happens if we do really well? Do we get a promise that it will remain open?
[12:14] Kered Rickena: we will all have to abide by the usual terms and conditions
[12:14] Prash Mavendorf: it's a question worth asking.
[12:15] Leornian Naidoo: Do we have a promise that says we can reamian here?
[12:15] Jonno Stromfield: I don't think we can expect a promise
[12:15] Kered Rickena: ok thats another question for melsa
[12:15] Jonno Stromfield: but we can ask
[12:15] Erich Templar: I doubt they could promise it long-term
[12:15] Hennamono Morpork: If they do choose to close it do we have any guarantee of how much notice they'd give?
[12:16] Prash Mavendorf: we have until the end of the year... that is the guarantee. lol.
[12:16] Kered Rickena: well the islad lease will run till Jan
[12:16] Prash Mavendorf: or jan. lol.
[12:16] Kered Rickena: so far that is the only guarentee
[12:16] Elsbeth Biedermann: but we'd need notice before that whether it continues or not
[12:16] Hennamono Morpork: But how long before that would we know if they were renewing?
[12:16] Prash Mavendorf: i would expect no more than 2 or 3 months.
[12:16] Elsbeth Biedermann: I would very much hate to see another "one week and you're out" situation
[12:17] Leornian Naidoo: yeah me too
[12:17] Prash Mavendorf: but CQ may know when an invoice gets raised.
[12:17] Kered Rickena: its like any land if you dont pay it goes
[12:17] Prash Mavendorf: indeed.
[12:17] Jonno Stromfield: I doubt anyone can even answer when before July when responsibility is handed over
[12:17] Prash Mavendorf: but surely the OU gets an invoice with at least 1 months notice.
[12:17] Commander Quandry: I pay monthly - I believe the OU pay yearly - may be cheaper that way
[12:17] Prash Mavendorf: fair enuf.
[12:17] Commander Quandry: I don't get an invoice
[12:18] Prash Mavendorf: hmmm. ok.
[12:18] Commander Quandry: they just take the money from me
[12:18] Lazarus Loxely: would they allow us to take over the island if we could arrange to buy it as a group?
[12:18] Lazarus Loxely: worse case in 12 months
[12:18] Kered Rickena: thast a lot of money
[12:18] Hennamono Morpork: Where would be the point in that?
[12:18] Prash Mavendorf: i think someone in the OU will have full control, but if we have enuf money to pay for it ($10,000), I'm sure we can.
[12:18] Aseret Quintessa: maybe but then would that vooid it being OU
[12:18] Erich Templar: In theory, we could always buy an island. But it would be hellishly complicated, and expensive.
[12:18] Aseret Quintessa: void*
[12:18] Prash Mavendorf: depends on whether we stick to the charter.
[12:19] Prash Mavendorf: or agreement.
[12:19] Aseret Quintessa: a question for Elsa then
[12:19] Kered Rickena: ok will pull out the questions for elsa from that lot
[12:19] Commander Quandry: The OU will pay next year if this year is a success
[12:19] Commander Quandry: I suggest if it is not a success we will not want any other island together
[12:20] Kered Rickena: so we MUST succeed
[12:20] Hennamono Morpork: What is the definition of success?
[12:20] Commander Quandry: only if it works and they do not pay would we have to think of doing anything
[12:20] Prash Mavendorf: if the OU are happy with the way we are going and we all get along like one big happy family.
[12:20] Kered Rickena: more students using it
[12:20] Elsbeth Biedermann: we need that defined though
[12:20] Hennamono Morpork: How many more? How happy?
[12:20] Elsbeth Biedermann: how much is more,
[12:20] Jonno Stromfield: we might want to define it ourselves
[12:21] Prash Mavendorf: we need some KPI's from the OU.
[12:21] Kered Rickena: if they know themselves
[12:21] Jonno Stromfield: they don't know
[12:21] Prash Mavendorf: we haven't asked. lol.
[12:21] Jonno Stromfield: I'd rather we wowed them with stats
[12:21] Prash Mavendorf: worth asking how they will measure success and what the criterea is.
[12:21] Prash Mavendorf: stats can be made up jonno.
[12:21] Jonno Stromfield: yes
[12:21] Prash Mavendorf: u know the rules about stats. lol.
[12:22] Jonno Stromfield: but we don't need to
[12:22] Elsbeth Biedermann: statistics can be massaged to say whatever we want them to say
[12:22] Kered Rickena: there is a visitor logger on the island
[12:22] Commander Quandry: a thriving community that can be used to demonstrate social interaction for an Open University will be what they want
[12:22] Prash Mavendorf: how will the OU verify that the information we provide them matches what the visitor logger tells us?
[12:22] Prash Mavendorf: sorry, just being pendantic here.
[12:22] Prash Mavendorf: we need to think this through a bit.
[12:23] Kered Rickena: i assume we will have access to that logger
[12:23] Commander Quandry: no we don't need to think it through
[12:23] Commander Quandry: we have a year
[12:23] Jonno Stromfield: Provided Kick and Elsa keep an eye on the set up, I don't think there will be a probalem
[12:23] Commander Quandry: all we need to show now is that we can run the island
[12:23] Commander Quandry: after that we can worry about making it viable for the OU to continue in 2012
[12:23] Prash Mavendorf: indeed CQ.
[12:23] Jonno Stromfield: agreed
[12:23] Leornian Naidoo: agreed
[12:23] Kered Rickena: yes
[12:23] Kered Rickena: Ok
[12:23] Kered Rickena: Item 3
A cooperative or a hierarchy for management / Pros and cons of the ideas so far
[12:23] Jonno Stromfield: Another question. Other than reporting and sticking to OU rules, do the steering committee have any other requirements for the running of the island?
[12:24] Jonno Stromfield: woah not finished with 2
[12:24] Prash Mavendorf: i think we need to hold a 2012 Outopia Olympics... but i digress.
[12:24] Kered Rickena: thast another one added to the list
[12:24] Jonno Stromfield: Can Elsa exand on the Risk assessment thing?
[12:24] Kered Rickena: that i cant answer
[12:25] Kered Rickena: waiting for thta infor from her
[12:25] Hennamono Morpork: Are they the only options - cooperatives and hierarchies aren't the only RL systems
[12:25] Leornian Naidoo: We need all details in black and white from the steering group
[12:25] Kered Rickena: its your choice
[12:25] Leornian Naidoo: yes Henna good point
[12:25] Kered Rickena: you have to decide which method to use
[12:25] Jonno Stromfield: can we lift tennacy restrictions sooner than march?
[12:26] Jonno Stromfield: (that's my last question for Elsa)
[12:26] Jonno Stromfield: °?°
[12:26] Kered Rickena: not until we have been given the info
[12:27] Aseret Quintessa: just reading Toris notice

What follows is the text of a note card that I created on Elsa's behalf to pass on information to everyone:

Information from Elsa 17th January 2011

One of the points that arose was around managing expectations of the community in terms of what sort of a priority this is for the Learning Innovation Office (low, in the general scheme of all that they have responsibility for), and the reality of the hours that Greg and I are committed to for managing Outopia issues within a context of all virtual world activity, so none of us are able to provide daily interaction with the debate. We are going to work on writing up the discussions we had today so that the community has clearer guidance addressing the points Tori has raised and passed on from Kered (and we appreciate this is necessary), and then of course I will be available to answer questions again synchronously, as promised, on Friday. After that I am away for a fortnight, and hopefully over that period the group will be able to move forward based on the guidance and the Q&A session arising from this week.

• the Steering Group Meeting is on the 9th of March, as we said previously. In order for everyone on that committee to have time to read the community submission and be able to discuss it from an informed perspective at that meeting, it will need to be submitted via the existing rep, Tori Landau (by email to virtualworlds@open.ac.uk) by the 2nd of March please

• The steering committee are unanimous in their agreement that only verifiable staff and students of the OU should have input to core issues of governance in an activity supported by OU funding. We can set up a voting facility behind the OU portal for anything that the community wishes to vote on relating to the decision-making process of moving forward with self-governance. Please note though that you should allow three working days (max) from the submission of the request to the facility being available.

However, please note that after July there will not be the support to manage this sort on spec request, and the voting facility will only be available for major issues, for example if there should be something like a regular 6 monthly election process.

Things you might like to be thinking about as a group are how to convince the OU that the community can effectively self manage, and how to evidence that any ideas/plans have mitigated for all the associated risks (eg if one person has authority over the island, what risks might be associated with that? similarly if it is a group rather than one person, what are the risks there and what could you put in place to mitigate for them?).

Best wishes, Elsa


[12:27] Prash Mavendorf: have we discussed the tennancy thing?
[12:27] Kered Rickena: ok you shoul have the info from elsa now
[12:28] Prash Mavendorf: yep.
[12:28] Commander Quandry: Reading that I am out of here. It says students and tutors and I am not currently studying
[12:28] Prash Mavendorf: shame CQ. ;9
[12:28] Prash Mavendorf: :(
[12:28] Tori Landau: I'll try and get that clarified CQ
[12:28] Jonno Stromfield: you are officially a student for some time, CQ
[12:28] Kacey LittleBoots: me neither
[12:28] Prash Mavendorf: any chance we can have u as a consultant CQ?
[12:29] Jonno Stromfield: when did you stop?
[12:29] Prash Mavendorf: lol.
[12:29] Tori Landau: Elsa had to leave in hurry
[12:29] Tori Landau: i did notice it
[12:29] Commander Quandry: Over a year
[12:29] Jonno Stromfield: ah...
[12:29] MarionGE Resident: Have you actually finished studying or just on a break?
[12:29] Commander Quandry: I am a graduate - and I may study again, when I can afford it
[12:29] Leornian Naidoo: I have finished
[12:29] Leornian Naidoo: me too CQ
[12:30] Jonno Stromfield: we can check with Elsa on the position of Alumni
[12:30] Leornian Naidoo: thank you
[12:30] Hennamono Morpork: I think Alumni should be included
[12:30] Aseret Quintessa: aren't grads still OU?
[12:30] Jonno Stromfield: grad students yes
[12:30] Commander Quandry: we can use the Library at Walton Hall forever
[12:30] Leornian Naidoo: once OU always OU
[12:30] Tori Landau: i'm trying to find out via text
[12:30] MarionGE Resident: Alumni should definitely be included
[12:30] Aseret Quintessa: in that case isn't it still the same
[12:31] Prash Mavendorf: sadly it isn't included. :(
[12:31] Jonno Stromfield: perhaps, but we'll need confirmation
[12:31] Aseret Quintessa: another point for Elsa
[12:31] Hennamono Morpork: Also ex staff - once in always in...
[12:31] Jonno Stromfield: I think so too
[12:31] Elsbeth Biedermann: I think Alumni should certainly be included
[12:31] Jonno Stromfield: we come back often enough
[12:31] Lazarus Loxely: depends why you are ex staff lol
[12:31] Kered Rickena: but if you cant log in you cant vote
[12:32] Jonno Stromfield: you can log in for ages
[12:32] Prash Mavendorf: or you can vote via the OU website.
[12:32] Aseret Quintessa: it needs defining properly
[12:32] Commander Quandry: I can log in - I have a student home
[12:32] Commander Quandry: because I have started a second degree
[12:32] Leornian Naidoo: me too
[12:32] Prash Mavendorf: so u can vote via the StudentHome then. lol.
[12:32] Kered Rickena: then hopefully that will be ok
[12:32] Jonno Stromfield: we'll get clarification
[12:33] Kered Rickena: can you get onnto the virtual worlds site
[12:33] Leornian Naidoo: yes
[12:33] Tori Landau: it could just be an oversight in the phrasing
[12:33] Tori Landau: trying to check, Elsa has had a very long day, her phone may be off now
[12:34] Prash Mavendorf shouts: come on over Tori!
[12:34] Lazarus Loxely: makes sense otherwise people here who gain posts would they have to resign them and leave at the end of their degree? i doubt it
[12:34] Tori Landau: i think for now, assume that anyone who can access studnt home can vote as they are verified ou
[12:34] Jonno Stromfield: in OUSA you apply for an extension
[12:34] Tori Landau: could just be a slip up - she was very tired
[12:34] Jonno Stromfield: but only for a year
[12:35] Leornian Naidoo: interesting Jonno
[12:35] Tori Landau: i'm scared to try and sit - can't see evryone lol
[12:35] Jonno Stromfield: officers do 10pointers
[12:35] Leornian Naidoo: I would if I could
[12:35] Tori Landau: if i've just on anyone, i apologise
[12:35] Leornian Naidoo: let me check what they cost now
[12:36] Riss Altman marvels at all th einvisible people
[12:36] Jonno Stromfield: costs abroad are hideious
[12:36] Hennamono Morpork: Cost went up a lot
[12:36] Aseret Quintessa: What about this risk assement thing
[12:36] Tori Landau: it has Henn
[12:36] Aseret Quintessa: does anyone know anymore about it?
[12:37] Kered Rickena: ok is that it for question for Elsa
[12:37] Tori Landau: Elsa has to ratify and clarify some things with Niall
[12:37] Aseret Quintessa: kk
[12:37] Prash Mavendorf: i don't think we need a risk assessment for this island. it's been around for a while.... so i don't think we need one.
[12:37] Tori Landau: she will get back to us on more in a few days via me
[12:37] Jonno Stromfield: okay, thanks, Tori
[12:37] Prash Mavendorf: oops.. i scared him off.
[12:37] Kered Rickena: other can be posted on the forum
[12:37] Tori Landau: and of course will answer questions on friday
[12:38] Jonno Stromfield: well if she gets the chat log of this meet, hopefully she'll have a few answers too
[12:38] Kered Rickena: yes
[12:38] Tori Landau: She mentions about some of the rick factors in the note card - issues we are already addressing
[12:38] Leornian Naidoo: 385 pounds for a 10 pointer nope there is no chance of that this year
[12:38] Kered Rickena: ok so we have done Item 1 voting now time scales
[12:38] Tori Landau: yes, she will - i emailed last one to her, greg and niall ;)
[12:38] Jonno Stromfield: what happened to item 1, kered? did I fall asleep and miss it?
[12:38] Prash Mavendorf: pay by installments leo?
[12:39] Jonno Stromfield: answered before ansked
[12:39] Prash Mavendorf: question 1 was answered via the notecard. i think .lol.
[12:39] Kered Rickena: were waiting for tori
[12:39] Commander Quandry: I am thinking of starting a course in May
[12:39] Commander Quandry: this may make that certain
[12:39] Leornian Naidoo: nope no way not this year
[12:39] Tori Landau: Yes, it was Jonno - OU are providing us with voting via website
[12:39] Prash Mavendorf: i think the OU should run a course on building in Second Life.
[12:39] Commander Quandry: that's how committed I am - Anna of Niale if you are reading this
[12:39] Jonno Stromfield: there's another success criterion. The number of courses started just to remain in OUtopia
[12:40] Jonno Stromfield: I meant timescales
[12:40] Kered Rickena: SO the amount of time to Vote ?
[12:40] Prash Mavendorf: 2 weeks.
[12:41] Prash Mavendorf: i reckon it should be 2 weeks.
[12:41] Prash Mavendorf: to vote that is.
[12:41] Jonno Stromfield: no, I want timescales discussed in general
[12:41] Prash Mavendorf: discussion... 2 weeks.
[12:41] Kered Rickena: well will take at lease 3 days to set up
[12:41] Commander Quandry: add in a notice period and voting is a long process
[12:41] Jonno Stromfield: are we able to aim for March 9th?
[12:41] Jonno Stromfield: when do we get a draft plan together
[12:41] Tori Landau: actually, it's march 2nd for a plan
[12:41] Jonno Stromfield: good point
[12:41] Tori Landau: to be submitted
[12:42] Prash Mavendorf: so we have 6 weeks to get it all done.
[12:42] Jonno Stromfield: do we think we can do it?
[12:42] Lazarus Loxely: i vote for a plan by march 2nd
[12:42] Prash Mavendorf: 2 weeks to prepare, 2 weeks to discuss, 2 weeks to vote.
[12:42] Hennamono Morpork: Makes sense
[12:42] Prash Mavendorf: we can cut the discussion to 1.5 weeks.
[12:42] Prash Mavendorf: if needed.
[12:42] Tori Landau: did everyone get my notice and the note card btw?
[12:42] Jonno Stromfield: I expect preparation and discussion will run into each other
[12:42] Aseret Quintessa: yes ty Tori
[12:43] Prash Mavendorf: to give time to get the information gathered and presented to the OU
[12:43] Jonno Stromfield: yes, thanks tori
[12:43] Hennamono Morpork: Yes Tori
[12:43] Elsbeth Biedermann: yes thanks
[12:43] Prash Mavendorf: yes i did thanks Tori. extremely helpful.
[12:43] Kacey LittleBoots: yes tori
[12:43] Commander Quandry: yes Tori
[12:43] Tori Landau: good, looks like notcies are working again, for now
[12:43] Prash Mavendorf: did it ever stop working?
[12:43] MarionGE Resident: Does the voting topic cover small votes vs large votes? Like the vote earlier I think we will need better system for in meeting voting
[12:44] Tori Landau: yes, it did, not everyone got them and i didn't get one from another group today
[12:44] Kered Rickena: you cant leacve the vot till the last second
[12:44] Leornian Naidoo: Tori Anjoux had real probs so perhaps ask him if he got them
[12:44] Prash Mavendorf: proportional representation. lol.
[12:44] Jonno Stromfield: So a meeting in 4 weeks to get the plan options ready for a vote
[12:44] Commander Quandry: I can set up voting for anything.
[12:44] Jonno Stromfield: thanks Commander
[12:44] Kered Rickena: but ou want verified
[12:44] Commander Quandry: all we need is a text file of those alowed to vote
[12:44] Tori Landau: Actually, the OU may be able to facilitate us a bit more
[12:45] Tori Landau: give it a day or 2 for more info °?°
[12:45] Prash Mavendorf: i still think we should try and get the voting page via the student home page.
[12:45] Commander Quandry: they maybe - but we don't want to make too much work for them
[12:45] Commander Quandry: the idea is to do it ourselves
[12:45] Jonno Stromfield: we need a means where those who aren't already verified apply to be so
[12:45] Prash Mavendorf: that way we know who the students are.
[12:45] Prash Mavendorf: or tutors.
[12:45] Commander Quandry: that can be done quite easily too
[12:45] Prash Mavendorf: or staff.
[12:45] Prash Mavendorf: i hope so.
[12:45] Prash Mavendorf: lol.
[12:45] Jonno Stromfield: if you check in the group info, you can see who already are
[12:45] Commander Quandry: we need to know who are verified
[12:45] Commander Quandry: we do now
[12:45] Tori Landau: no, but they - yes Jonno... OU want control of this so they are going to help out
[12:46] Commander Quandry: just need to ensure it is kept up to date
[12:46] Commander Quandry: want control of what?
[12:46] Commander Quandry: every single vote we do
[12:46] Kered Rickena: some have houses and arent verified
[12:46] Tori Landau: that people who vote are verified
[12:46] Commander Quandry: I can see for the purposes of this process they do
[12:46] Tori Landau: as they state in the note card - they are paying for this
[12:46] Prash Mavendorf: jonno.. the group info on here doesn't guarantee that a member of the forum are verified students.
[12:46] Jonno Stromfield: we need the mechanism agreed. Do those needed verification e-mail greg from an OU e-mail?
[12:46] Commander Quandry: but I am sure they do not want to control every vote the community may want to have
[12:46] Prash Mavendorf: i don't have a place here.
[12:46] Jonno Stromfield: Yes, prash it does
[12:47] Jonno Stromfield: it just isn't complete
[12:47] Commander Quandry: they can email any of us from their OU email address
[12:47] Tori Landau: it's being worked out - we'll hear back in a day or 2
[12:47] Prash Mavendorf: surely a non-student can be a member of outopia.
[12:47] Jonno Stromfield: there is a role
[12:47] Kered Rickena: not all new students have an OU email address
[12:47] Prash Mavendorf: that's a crackign idea cq.
[12:47] MarionGE Resident: What happens when firstclass stops? Won't we have gamil email accounts. How will that be verified?
[12:47] Commander Quandry: they can be a member - but they can not vote
[12:47] Jonno Stromfield: verified OUtopian
[12:47] Prash Mavendorf: MGE, you can register for a gmail email address.
[12:48] Prash Mavendorf: but a verified outopian isn't necessarily a verified student.
[12:48] Prash Mavendorf: an OU gmail email address i mean.
[12:48] Jonno Stromfield: yes, they are students or staff
[12:48] Commander Quandry: I am M326057X
[12:48] Prash Mavendorf: are you sure?
[12:48] Commander Quandry: we all have an SI
[12:48] Tori Landau: yes, the new email syetm, you have to be
[12:48] Commander Quandry: and tutor have somethin similar
[12:48] Jonno Stromfield: well alumni are a grey area
[12:49] Jonno Stromfield: they have e-mail, but we still don't know if the OU will accept them
[12:49] Kered Rickena: ok its 10 to 9
[12:50] Kered Rickena: shall we move on for the last 10 minutes
[12:50] Leornian Naidoo: yes
[12:50] Prash Mavendorf: ok.
[12:50] Jonno Stromfield: okay
[12:50] Lazarus Loxely: great
[12:50] Kered Rickena: Item 3
A cooperative or a hierarchy for management / Pros and cons of the ideas so fa
[12:50] Tori Landau: please kered, as i said - more info to come in next few days, be patient °?°
[12:50] Kered Rickena: or other forms
[12:50] Prash Mavendorf: i don't see how the tenancy agreement can be enforceable in uk law as no rent is payable.
[12:50] Commander Quandry: I do think we need to decide as soon as we can the model we are going to use to govern the island
[12:51] Leornian Naidoo: yes CQ
[12:51] Kered Rickena: yes only have 6 weeks to give the OU a plan
[12:51] Tori Landau: Agreed, what is your preference now CQ, you wanted to have an eleceted council etc.
[12:51] MarionGE Resident: I'm sorry this might be silly. But what are the main differences between the different systems?
[12:51] Erich Templar: Benevolent dictatorship
[12:51] Jonno Stromfield: As I said on the forum, I think it will take time and another meeting or two
[12:51] Prash Mavendorf: can i propose that we temporarily adopt the OUSA constitution until we can form a proper constitution for this island?
[12:51] Hennamono Morpork: I propose felarchy be considered as an option!
[12:51] Jonno Stromfield: No Prash
[12:52] Jonno Stromfield: when was the last time you read it?
[12:52] Kered Rickena: No Prash
[12:52] Tori Landau: WE need to decide the type of governship first Prash and not the OUSA one - no
[12:52] Tori Landau: sorry to disagree with you there my friend
[12:52] Aseret Quintessa: I thought Elsa was recommending less govening rather than more?
[12:52] Aseret Quintessa: a smiple approach
[12:52] Kered Rickena: yes
[12:52] Leornian Naidoo: I agree
[12:52] Tori Landau: she is As
[12:52] Jonno Stromfield: almost none at all, Aseret
[12:53] Tori Landau: that's why I want to ask CQ his feeling on it now, please CQ °?°
[12:53] Jonno Stromfield: but as Tori says, we decide
[12:53] Commander Quandry: I want to see 5 elected Governors who oversee the Estate/Land/Community Controls. Under that groups of community members will take on tasks and roles for the benefite of the community. The Govering body are not so much rulers as facilitators.
[12:53] DavidMike Bookmite is Online
[12:54] Hennamono Morpork: I think 5 is too few
[12:54] Lazarus Loxely: got my vote
[12:54] Commander Quandry: Why Henn?
[12:54] Prash Mavendorf: 5 is a good start.
[12:54] Hennamono Morpork: Too easy to become a cabal
[12:54] Erich Templar: Do we have a large enough active population to have 5 governors?
[12:54] Tori Landau: ok... well, i know the OU is expecting the rep and the estate managers to be elected and after July looks like we will need an electoral commissioner so that might be 5
[12:54] Prash Mavendorf: can always amend it if it requires it.
[12:54] Commander Quandry: we need to get up and running
[12:55] Tori Landau: we do and we need agreement soon
[12:55] Hennamono Morpork: Functional is more important than ideal, agreed
[12:55] Commander Quandry: 5 to oversee the transition and proov to the OU that we can manage it
[12:55] Jonno Stromfield: provided we are talking administrators, not rule makers, I'm okay with that.
[12:55] Lazarus Loxely: seconded Jonno
[12:55] Tori Landau: yes, they are.... everyone would still have a say
[12:55] Commander Quandry: how that evolves over time depends on how much people are prepared to put into the community
[12:56] Jonno Stromfield: we also need a way of making rules, and throwing them out
[12:56] Commander Quandry: who here would stand for election under my proposal - just as an indication of how many we might get
[12:56] Jonno Stromfield: cooperation is simplest.
[12:56] Jonno Stromfield: Kered Rickena have to define the role first
[12:56] Tori Landau: yes, hence idea of a performance review meeting every 3 months
[12:56] Commander Quandry: I would stand - assuming having obtained my degree is not a hindrence
[12:56] Prash Mavendorf: at the moment, I don't know if I would stand.
[12:57] Tori Landau: me neither
[12:57] Tori Landau: , i don't know yet i mean
[12:57] Hennamono Morpork: How much time would be involved?
[12:57] Aseret Quintessa: no I wouldn't stand
[12:57] Lazarus Loxely: not me i would rather be in one of the supporting groups
[12:57] Jonno Stromfield: If it was low maintenance and didn't demand loads of meetings, I might
[12:57] Aseret Quintessa: I doubt Dee would either
[12:57] Commander Quandry: the role initially is being part of a team, taking in considerations of all OUtopians, that can deliver what the OU will want from us
[12:57] Kered Rickena: Ok commander ask that question on the forum
[12:58] Commander Quandry: so time is important
[12:58] Tori Landau: For rep and estate managers quite a few hours as the esatate managers will act as litter wardens and plot allocation as well
[12:58] Lazarus Loxely: good idea Kered noth forums to be safe
[12:58] Lazarus Loxely: *both
[12:58] Jonno Stromfield: Building group can do some prim warden stuff, Tori
[12:58] Kered Rickena: they you will egt a better idea
[12:58] Jonno Stromfield: Jered suggested that
[12:58] Hennamono Morpork: I have limited time - wouldn't commit to something I couldn't do prperly
[12:58] Jonno Stromfield: Kered
[12:59] Tori Landau: ok, good idea... how oudl that work on the permssions kered?
[12:59] Commander Quandry: it requires helping the community by facilitating their wishes. Sorting out the housing, redesigning, increasing the community and its involvement
[12:59] Jonno Stromfield: To much
[12:59] Jonno Stromfield: Too much
[12:59] Hennamono Morpork: I don't think I'd find the time
[12:59] Jonno Stromfield: need smaller groups to devolve that stuff to
[12:59] Kered Rickena: if all 5 have the task its is split
[12:59] Kered Rickena: so not that hard
[13:00] Kered Rickena: litter on Outopia is not bad
[13:00] Jonno Stromfield: the should be keyholders. If they want to be members of another group too
[13:00] Hennamono Morpork: One reason I said needed more people - share the workload reduce the time
[13:00] Kered Rickena: OU island is another matter
[13:00] Tori Landau: ok, good - don't know numner yet of estate managers
[13:00] Tori Landau: there's something we need to ask then
[13:00] Commander Quandry: we need more people to do things I don't think we need more facilitators
[13:00] Lazarus Loxely: agreed
[13:00] Jonno Stromfield: I'm happy to be on a building group
[13:01] Tori Landau: since you currently do OU - they might expect you to still do it after transition
[13:01] Lazarus Loxely: but i think we have that
[13:01] Commander Quandry: we need about 15 at least building, organising, etc
[13:01] Commander Quandry: but 5 to control the estate and land toold is enough I think
[13:01] Kered Rickena: ok 9pm
[13:01] Jonno Stromfield: I agree CQ, providing it's just that.
[13:02] Aseret Quintessa: can I ask why 5 CQ when there were only two with Greg and Anna?
[13:02] Jonno Stromfield: not housing and membership and all the other stuff that could get lumped in
[13:02] Tori Landau: greg and anna get paid
[13:02] Tori Landau: we won't
[13:02] Aseret Quintessa: yes but why 5
[13:02] Commander Quandry: to have a better cover of the time, more availability
[13:02] Commander Quandry: it's a start
[13:02] Jonno Stromfield: yes
[13:02] Aseret Quintessa: how many hours did Greg and Anna do here in a week?
[13:03] Aseret Quintessa: sorry I don;'t have any idea about that
[13:03] Tori Landau: not found out yet As
[13:03] Aseret Quintessa: kk
[13:03] Kered Rickena: OK can we continue this on the forum
[13:03] Commander Quandry: very little which is why not much has changed
[13:03] Aseret Quintessa: k
[13:03] Kered Rickena: Date of next meeting after the one with Elsa
[13:03] Leornian Naidoo: yes Kered
[13:03] Tori Landau: sorry, greg has 2 and a half days on the whole virtual worlds project
[13:03] Commander Quandry: the ideas for this island that have been coming from the community are radicle
[13:03] Tori Landau: would 31st jan be ok for next meetring
[13:04] Tori Landau: ?
[13:04] Jonno Stromfield: okay
[13:04] Erich Templar: Fine
[13:04] Lazarus Loxely: think so
[13:04] Leornian Naidoo: can we put a few different dates like before?
[13:04] Aseret Quintessa: k for me
[13:04] Kered Rickena: we only have 6 weeks so need to do a lot of talking on the forum
[13:04] Leornian Naidoo: on the forum?
[13:04] Tori Landau: agree kered
[13:05] Kered Rickena: commander forum Loe
[13:05] Kered Rickena: Leo
[13:05] Jonno Stromfield: can you publish a log of this meet, Kered?
[13:05] Kered Rickena: yes
[13:05] Jonno Stromfield: thanks
[13:05] Tori Landau: yes, kered, would you please pass the editied version to me plz
[13:05] Kered Rickena: will put it on the forum later
[13:05] Tori Landau: for Outopia's blog
[13:05] Commander Quandry: a REMINDER - http://www.outopians.org.uk/forum
[13:05] Erich Templar: Thanks, CQ
[13:06] Leornian Naidoo: I am still not cleared by the higher ups
[13:06] Kered Rickena: Chair person ? for next meeting
[13:06] Jonno Stromfield: And thanks for chairing the meeting, too
[13:06] Kered Rickena: np
[13:06] Leornian Naidoo: Jonno you next?
[13:06] Lazarus Loxely: yeah so good you might as well do it again lol
[13:06] Commander Quandry: Something to think about too - there is hosting for an entire website with blogs, photos, whatever at that site
[13:06] Jonno Stromfield feels arm going up back
[13:06] Jonno Stromfield: okay
[13:06] Commander Quandry: if anyone wants to fill it I am quite happy to give out FTP information
[13:06] Leornian Naidoo: Yay Jonno will chair
[13:07] Lazarus Loxely: ideal
[13:07] Kered Rickena: Ok Meeting CLOSED