Agenda for community meeting on 31st January 2011

Hi,

I agreed to chair to next community meeting, Monday 31st 8pm UK time, but I haven't had any agenda items sent to me yet.



So I have placed some items on the agenda myself and it reads:

1 Welcome and Apologies

2 Matters arising from the last meeting

3 Aims and Visions

4 Getting the plan done

5 Any other business



Item 3:

The biggest hurdle I think we have in getting a plan done is that there is still a spectrum of views as to how we want to initially govern the community. The three most often mentioned are

A The sandbox approach. Almost the entire sim becomes a long return sandbox, where anyone can create anything. A few permanent information centres are added. This was first suggested by Elsa

B The fully governed approach. We create a representative democracy and elect a government who are responsible for everything, a subset holding the technical power. Working groups made up of all OUtopians do the work. CQ and Kered seem to favour this approach, and you can see details of CQ's vision in his recent thread.

C The self-governed approach. Policy decisions are made by OUtopians as a whole, and the working groups of OUtopians are given technical permissions, by the small group of permission holders, to do the things that interest them, building, finance, estate management, etc. Henn and I, for example, lean toward this approach.

(Apologies if I have mischaracterised anyone's views here.)

I think we have to either come to a consensus on this issue or vote between them, before we can move ahead with the plan, or we might decide to create multiple plans and vote after. So that's item 3. How do we get past this stumbling block and on to doing the plan?



Item 4:

This is a continuation. We have to have one or more plans complete in the next two weeks, ready for a vote off. How is that work going to be done?



If people want other items placing on the agenda - please IM me in world.



Cheers,

Jonno Stromfield

New Forum

As announced last night by Elsa, OU students and staff who want to join the discussion about OUtopia's future can go to http://learn.open.ac.uk/site/virtualworlds and follow the "OUtopians" link.

Chat log of meeting with Elsa on 21st January 2011

[2011/01/21 12:04] Elsa Dickins: OK, shall we get going?
[2011/01/21 12:04] Elsbeth Biedermann: ok
[2011/01/21 12:04] Kickaha Wolfenhaut: Yes
[2011/01/21 12:04] Kickaha Wolfenhaut: Yes
[2011/01/21 12:04] Elsa Dickins: I sent out a notice earlier with a notecard attached, with a link to a new forum on OU webspace
[2011/01/21 12:04] Prash Mavendorf: no.... oh ok... yes then.
[2011/01/21 12:04] Prash Mavendorf: lol.
[2011/01/21 12:05] Rocky Joans: I'm afraid I missed the notecard
[2011/01/21 12:05] Prash Mavendorf: the notecard went awol?
[2011/01/21 12:05] Titiana Haystack: same here
[2011/01/21 12:05] Elsa Dickins: we've set this up because it just makes sense to have one single, mandated place for discussions where you have a direct line to us
[2011/01/21 12:05] Elsa Dickins: OK hold up then and I'll drop them round
[2011/01/21 12:06] MarionGE Resident: ty
[2011/01/21 12:06] Prash Mavendorf: hi cq.
[2011/01/21 12:06] Elsa Dickins gave you OUtopia Discussion Forum.
Text of note card follows:
“The Virtual Worlds Steering Committee are unanimous in their agreement that only verifiable staff and students of the OU should be involved in the decision-making process for handing OUtopia over to self-governance by the community. We need to be certain that anyone who is in involved in proposing/selecting/voting etc meets that criterion. Rather than the committee working through the finer definitions of this (eg how many months since last course studied etc) it is simplest to adopt the standard OU conventions which dictate whether or not someone has current access to the website. So, if you can sign in to student home or tutor home then you have a say in the management of a resource that is funded by the university. To this end we have established a forum space, which can be accessed by going to http://learn.open.ac.uk/site/virtualworlds then clicking the link "OUtopians", in the middle of the page under the group of icons with pink text. I have made a posting there which answers questions that have been raised in the last week or two, and will continue to use the space for disseminating information to and from the steering committee. We look forward to seeing discussions grow over the next month.

We recognise that there are members of the OU community who will not be able to access this forum and we hope that you will continue to enjoy use of the island as our guests, and to take an active part in any inworld or out of world discussions that contribute to the wider development of the OUtopia community.”
End of note card.
[2011/01/21 12:06] Tori Landau: ty Elsa
[2011/01/21 12:06] Hatshepsut Linette: ty
[2011/01/21 12:07] Jonno Stromfield: ty
[2011/01/21 12:07] DeeDee Bookmite: TY
[2011/01/21 12:07] Elsa Dickins: OK *think* I have given a card to everyone
[2011/01/21 12:07] Elsa Dickins: it's the same as went out with the notice just now
[2011/01/21 12:07] Rocky Joans: It all looks fine and sensible to me apart from the colour of the link pink just isn't me!
[2011/01/21 12:07] Elsa Dickins: :)
[2011/01/21 12:07] Elsa Dickins: two things I want to say quickly
[2011/01/21 12:07] Tori Landau: er, I didn't get that notice - typical sl
[2011/01/21 12:08] Commander Quandry: It would appear that I am a chosen one
[2011/01/21 12:08] Erich Templar: I got two!
[2011/01/21 12:08] Hatshepsut Linette: me 3 now
[2011/01/21 12:08] Hennamono Morpork: Me too
[2011/01/21 12:08] Strangie Vaher: was that just me?
[2011/01/21 12:09] Elsa Dickins: one is that I thoroughly appreciate the efforts CQ has gone to in setting up the public forum for OUtopia discussions, and I know that's been a useful space for lots of people, and hope it continues to be so for wider community discussions - it would be great to see it lighten up a bit now and be a place for organising some FUN
[2011/01/21 12:09] Kickaha Wolfenhaut: Fun... yes, I remember that!
[2011/01/21 12:10] Elsa Dickins: the other is that I am also really grateful for the excellent job Tori has been doing as Rep to manage the information flow, and that she will no doubt continue to do but in a bit more of a back-to-normal way
[2011/01/21 12:10] Elsa Dickins: so having the new forum will be ONE place for asynchronous discussions, where we can capture all the input on OUtopia's future
[2011/01/21 12:10] Elsa Dickins: OK, have said my piece, please hit me with questions
[2011/01/21 12:10] Elsa Dickins: or clucking, as you please
[2011/01/21 12:11] Jonno Stromfield: Have the steering committee any other insistances?
[2011/01/21 12:11] Commander Quandry: the NC and the new forum say - "anyone who is in involved in proposing/selecting/voting"
[2011/01/21 12:12] Rocky Joans: Sorry CQ I don't understand
[2011/01/21 12:12] Commander Quandry: does that mean that someone who is not a current student/tutor could be part of the management?
[2011/01/21 12:12] Elsa Dickins: as I've said in the forum posting, there is an OU assessment going on in parallel with the community process
[2011/01/21 12:12] Elsa Dickins: yes CQ
[2011/01/21 12:12] Commander Quandry: OK
[2011/01/21 12:13] Erich Templar: Will the new forum have some sort of official status, or will it just be an informal chatting place?
[2011/01/21 12:13] Hennamono Morpork: What about alumni who no longer have acces to student home?
[2011/01/21 12:13] Elsa Dickins: so Jonno that means there may be things that arise that haven't been identified already, so the more the community can be proactive in raising issues the less likely the steering group will be to drop them
[2011/01/21 12:13] Jonno Stromfield: thank you for the clarification
[2011/01/21 12:14] Elsa Dickins: OK coming back to CQ's question (trying to answer two at once) and being clear: Only people who currently have access to tutor/student home can have role that carry any sort of responsibility in teh island management
[2011/01/21 12:14] Elsa Dickins: *roles and *the
[2011/01/21 12:14] Hatshepsut Linette: because of validating voting I guess
[2011/01/21 12:14] Elsa Dickins: indeed
[2011/01/21 12:15] Commander Quandry: at present that appears to keep me in the loop then
[2011/01/21 12:15] Jonno Stromfield: adminstrators don't need to have a vote to administrate
[2011/01/21 12:15] Hatshepsut Linette: good news CQ you have heaps to offer
[2011/01/21 12:15] Commander Quandry: because I just got in, and Subscribed to the forum
[2011/01/21 12:15] Elsa Dickins: excellent CQ :)
[2011/01/21 12:15] Rocky Joans: As the OU is bankrolling this it seems eminently fair
[2011/01/21 12:15] Prash Mavendorf: agreed.
[2011/01/21 12:15] DeeDee Bookmite: Great CQ :)
[2011/01/21 12:15] Jonno Stromfield: good news, CQ
[2011/01/21 12:15] Elsa Dickins: that's kinda the point Rocky :)
[2011/01/21 12:15] Elsa Dickins: Jonno waht do you mean by administrators?
[2011/01/21 12:16] Titiana Haystack: would it be possible for someone to have several verified alts with the one OU identity?
[2011/01/21 12:16] DeeDee Bookmite: I understand that a tutor who is also a student can have 2 ou emails. Does that mean they get 2 votes ? :)
[2011/01/21 12:16] Jonno Stromfield: if they aren't actually taking decisions on behalf of the community, but are helping in the day to day running, say as a prim warden
[2011/01/21 12:16] Elsa Dickins: ooooh interesting question Tits - yes I think that would be fine as long as they were very clearly idenitied within profiles etc
[2011/01/21 12:17] Titiana Haystack: but they would be able to have several votes then
[2011/01/21 12:17] DeeDee Bookmite: hmmmm
[2011/01/21 12:17] Hatshepsut Linette: I would think one human one vote
[2011/01/21 12:17] Erich Templar: Presumably it a vote per RL person, not per avatar.
[2011/01/21 12:17] Titiana Haystack: hopefully
[2011/01/21 12:17] Rocky Joans: Surely not tits because voting would be in the forum
[2011/01/21 12:17] Kickaha Wolfenhaut: I think the idea is to create polls on the website too.
[2011/01/21 12:17] Elsa Dickins: no Tits because they would only have one access to the website for voting
[2011/01/21 12:17] Titiana Haystack: ty
[2011/01/21 12:18] DeeDee Bookmite: and someone who was a tutor and a student?
[2011/01/21 12:18] Commander Quandry: even a tutor/studnt
[2011/01/21 12:18] Elsa Dickins: unless they are as DeeDee says both tutor and student - excellent point! In which case no, only one vote allowed and that could be monitored for
[2011/01/21 12:18] Hennamono Morpork: But if they had more than 1 OU profile?
[2011/01/21 12:18] DeeDee Bookmite: ok
[2011/01/21 12:18] Hennamono Morpork: OK
[2011/01/21 12:18] Rocky Joans: DeeDee has a point I have two identities and actually use a different name as a student so I could probably manage to get two votes - which is not fair
[2011/01/21 12:18] Commander Quandry: can't be too many power hungry tutor/students to worry about
[2011/01/21 12:18] Elsa Dickins: Kick can you capture that please so that it's a clear rule in any voting process
[2011/01/21 12:18] Kickaha Wolfenhaut: Yep
[2011/01/21 12:19] Rocky Joans: Are you sure CQ :)
[2011/01/21 12:19] Jonno Stromfield: lol
[2011/01/21 12:19] Elsa Dickins: there's me CQ, I have both and am exceedingly power hungry
[2011/01/21 12:19] Elsa Dickins grins
[2011/01/21 12:19] Elsbeth Biedermann: lol
[2011/01/21 12:19] Hennamono Morpork: Power nom nom nom
[2011/01/21 12:19] Elsa Dickins: lol Henn
[2011/01/21 12:19] Commander Quandry: So we have been finding out ;)
[2011/01/21 12:19] Strangie Vaher: I'm just hungry
[2011/01/21 12:19] Rocky Joans: I've always fancied being a dictator :)
[2011/01/21 12:19] Jonno Stromfield: if we catch them Elsa they will get stomped on!
[2011/01/21 12:19] Titiana Haystack: me i'm full of power, so not hungry for it
[2011/01/21 12:19] Elsa Dickins: now's your chance Rocky
[2011/01/21 12:19] DeeDee Bookmite: I am concerned about Alumni. I know when my last course finsihed I only had about 6 months and my ou email was gone, so say someone like CQ, would they lose their vote after such a short time?
[2011/01/21 12:19] Rocky Joans: I'm also good at arguing with myself
[2011/01/21 12:20] DeeDee Bookmite: lol
[2011/01/21 12:20] Rocky Joans: It's normally a year DD
[2011/01/21 12:20] Hennamono Morpork agrees with Deedee
[2011/01/21 12:20] Commander Quandry: I have pretty much decided to take a course starting in May just so as to avoid that happening - that's how much I care about OUtopia
[2011/01/21 12:20] Hatshepsut Linette: brilliant CQ
[2011/01/21 12:20] DeeDee Bookmite: oh good CQ
[2011/01/21 12:20] Erich Templar: As OUtopia is affiliated with the OU, it should reasonably have the same rules about membership.
[2011/01/21 12:20] Jonno Stromfield: More worried about Leo. Being based abroad a 10 pointer to keep active is prohibitive
[2011/01/21 12:20] Commander Quandry: any sponsorship would be grately receieved
[2011/01/21 12:20] Hatshepsut Linette: yes true
[2011/01/21 12:21] Elsa Dickins: DeeDee that's a fair point, but the decision to take it behind the portal aligns us with the standard OU position on who has access to what in terms of paid facilities
[2011/01/21 12:21] Rocky Joans: I think if someone hasn't studied taught for a year then it's fair there membership lapses
[2011/01/21 12:21] DeeDee Bookmite: yes I guess
[2011/01/21 12:21] Hatshepsut Linette: best not retire yet then
[2011/01/21 12:21] DeeDee Bookmite: and it doesn't stop them being a big part of Outopia
[2011/01/21 12:21] Elsa Dickins: It doesn't stop people being active within the community
[2011/01/21 12:21] Commander Quandry: it is our fess that pay for this
[2011/01/21 12:21] Strangie Vaher: I'm doing three courses and I hardly study at all, where does that leave me?
[2011/01/21 12:21] Elsa Dickins: Erich OUtopia is owned by the OU, not affiliated :)
[2011/01/21 12:21] Rocky Joans: Have you been FEStering then CQ
[2011/01/21 12:22] Titiana Haystack: lol stragnie
[2011/01/21 12:22] Jonno Stromfield: lol@Strangie
[2011/01/21 12:22] Elsa Dickins: lol Strangie
[2011/01/21 12:22] Erich Templar: Knew I'd got the wrong word, Elsa. :-)
[2011/01/21 12:22] Hennamono Morpork: Technically OUtopia is rented by OU not owned - LL maintain possession
[2011/01/21 12:23] Kickaha Wolfenhaut: Now... a word about your uniforms....
[2011/01/21 12:23] Shailey Garfield: Strangie, you might then decide to give your vote to somebody else who studies :-)
[2011/01/21 12:23] Hatshepsut Linette: lol
[2011/01/21 12:23] Tori Landau: rofl Kick
[2011/01/21 12:23] MarionGE Resident: Could alumni pay a fee to be a voting member of the community.
[2011/01/21 12:23] Strangie Vaher: would we say "give" Shailey? I think "sell"
[2011/01/21 12:23] Eli Larsson: lol Kick
[2011/01/21 12:23] Commander Quandry: Nothing wrong with my uniform
[2011/01/21 12:23] Elsa Dickins: I know there is practical stuff to sort out about land permissions and behaviour management, but this should also be about how the community can thrive as a community and continue having fun and doing cool stuff
[2011/01/21 12:23] Hennamono Morpork: Do uniforms come in a cat cut?
[2011/01/21 12:23] Shailey Garfield: yes, absolutely, 'sell' it off, Strangie!
[2011/01/21 12:24] Kickaha Wolfenhaut: Absolutely.
[2011/01/21 12:24] Elsa Dickins: and you don't need to be a paid up student to be pivotal in that
[2011/01/21 12:24] DeeDee Bookmite: yes that is more important
[2011/01/21 12:24] Elsa Dickins: Yes Henn, you get boots
[2011/01/21 12:24] Kickaha Wolfenhaut: Rinse em out though.
[2011/01/21 12:24] Rocky Joans: Could offend the rules if we only wore boots Elsa
[2011/01/21 12:24] Jonno Stromfield: Can we get an expansion on the risk assessment thing please, Elsa?
[2011/01/21 12:24] Jonno Stromfield: whose risk are we supposed to be assessing?
[2011/01/21 12:24] Elsa Dickins: it would if you did Rocky, I think the hen and the cat are OK though
[2011/01/21 12:25] Rocky Joans: That's discruimination!
[2011/01/21 12:25] Elsa Dickins: yes Jonno...
[2011/01/21 12:25] Elsa Dickins: I have commented on this in the forum -
[2011/01/21 12:25] Jonno Stromfield: Henn is the cat
[2011/01/21 12:25] Hennamono Morpork: Make boots the uniform!
[2011/01/21 12:25] Titiana Haystack: cat fur uniforms
[2011/01/21 12:25] Eli Larsson: I think it would depend wherer you wore th boots Rocky
[2011/01/21 12:26] Elsa Dickins: I'm sorry if this has sounded like somehting a lot more documentation-oriented than we intended -
[2011/01/21 12:26] Jonno Stromfield: okay, so not the risks to the OU, but the risks to the plan
[2011/01/21 12:26] Rocky Joans: Boots don't sound very document oriented
[2011/01/21 12:26] Elsa Dickins: what we had in mind was making sure that for every proposal you put forward you also capture the risk associated, and demonstrate that you have thought about how to mitigate for that
[2011/01/21 12:27] Commander Quandry: I find it hard to think of many risks? Risks to whom? Av's the island or the OU's reputation?
[2011/01/21 12:27] Elsa Dickins: for example, if one person has all the land permissions for the island, what are the risks?
[2011/01/21 12:27] Hatshepsut Linette: like if someone is ill long term and they have a key part etc
[2011/01/21 12:27] Elsa Dickins: yes Hats
[2011/01/21 12:27] Elsa Dickins: CQ you might find it easier if you think of the scenarion first
[2011/01/21 12:27] Hennamono Morpork: What is the risk associated with having a risk assessment?
[2011/01/21 12:27] Elsa Dickins: *scenario
[2011/01/21 12:27] Strangie Vaher: or if they need respite
[2011/01/21 12:27] Kickaha Wolfenhaut: I brainstormed a list of risks the other day CQ... was quite surprised how many I thought of.
[2011/01/21 12:27] Tori Landau: lol Henn
[2011/01/21 12:27] Erich Templar: Do you always have a plan B, in other words. :-)
[2011/01/21 12:27] Elsa Dickins: that all our heads implode Henn
[2011/01/21 12:27] Rocky Joans: Would we also need to think of worse case - ie someone who had control of permissions abused that control
[2011/01/21 12:27] Kickaha Wolfenhaut: Yes.
[2011/01/21 12:27] Elsa Dickins: yes Rocky, that would be a risk
[2011/01/21 12:27] Jonno Stromfield: unless Niall let's us have his password, one person - the owner does.
[2011/01/21 12:27] Commander Quandry: OK - so along the lines of why I propose 5 estate managers over 3. allows for sickness, holiday, internet down
[2011/01/21 12:28] Elsa Dickins: Jonno Niall will continue to be the owner, but for example at the moment Kick has very wide land permissions and could delete everything on the island and boot us all off in about 2 minutes flat if he wanted
[2011/01/21 12:28] Hennamono Morpork: I thought your 5 was all roles not just estate managers?
[2011/01/21 12:28] Elsa Dickins: despite Niall being the owner
[2011/01/21 12:28] Tori Landau: shhhh Elsa
[2011/01/21 12:28] Hatshepsut Linette: I understood they had different roles not all likely to be land
[2011/01/21 12:29] Jonno Stromfield: I image he'd get a carpeting from you
[2011/01/21 12:29] Elsa Dickins: good point Tori, never give him ideas...
[2011/01/21 12:29] Jonno Stromfield: his powers revoked
[2011/01/21 12:29] Hatshepsut Linette: that was why I suggested deputies for each job
[2011/01/21 12:29] Commander Quandry: Henn - portfolios - overseeing groups doing types of things
[2011/01/21 12:29] Elsa Dickins: he would certainly see a reduction in his birdseed allowance, yes
[2011/01/21 12:29] DeeDee Bookmite: lol
[2011/01/21 12:29] Jonno Stromfield: so not that big a risk, then
[2011/01/21 12:29] Jonno Stromfield: he likes his birdseed too much
[2011/01/21 12:29] Commander Quandry: so there is not one person who builds - there is a team of builders whose point of contact is the person on the management board with that portfolio
[2011/01/21 12:30] Hennamono Morpork: Makes sense
[2011/01/21 12:30] Jonno Stromfield: you want a management board - CQ. I don't
[2011/01/21 12:30] Jonno Stromfield: we can sort it out later
[2011/01/21 12:30] Elsa Dickins: yup, that's a discussion for the forum, and maybe ultimately a vote
[2011/01/21 12:30] Kickaha Wolfenhaut: IMO discussions about responsibilities need to happen in parallel with or even after discussions about the overall design and use of the island.
[2011/01/21 12:31] Commander Quandry: I was only mentioning from the RA POV
[2011/01/21 12:31] Hennamono Morpork agrees with Kick
[2011/01/21 12:31] Commander Quandry: not so discuss its merits
[2011/01/21 12:31] Jonno Stromfield: fair enough
[2011/01/21 12:31] Elsa Dickins: you have a timescale, so I suggest you think about what needs to be decided when, and in what order
[2011/01/21 12:31] DeeDee Bookmite: I agree I think it is difficult to discuss it until we know what is to be managed
[2011/01/21 12:31] Elsa Dickins: so that you don't talk round things for ever
[2011/01/21 12:31] DeeDee Bookmite: as if ;)
[2011/01/21 12:31] Tori Landau: Agree Dee
[2011/01/21 12:31] Elsa Dickins: :)
[2011/01/21 12:31] Eli Larsson: lol
[2011/01/21 12:31] Commander Quandry: everything has to be managed
[2011/01/21 12:32] Hennamono Morpork: But talking forever might be fun?
[2011/01/21 12:32] Commander Quandry: the island's continued success depends on people being prepared to put in the work required to make that happen
[2011/01/21 12:32] Elsa Dickins: talking forever will see the island disappear in March
[2011/01/21 12:32] Strangie Vaher: There are thousands of communities in SL. Can't we just buy someone elses rules and regs, then cut and paste "Outopia" in?
[2011/01/21 12:32] DeeDee Bookmite: not about constitutions and committees
[2011/01/21 12:32] Jonno Stromfield: do the steering committee have an idea of what it's aims for the community are? And critical success factors declared?
[2011/01/21 12:32] Hennamono Morpork wasn't serious...
[2011/01/21 12:32] Jonno Stromfield: and why I keep putting an extra apostrophe in it's
[2011/01/21 12:33] Elsa Dickins: again I have said this in the forum posting Jonno - it's about being stable, secure and sustainable, and about it continuing to grow
[2011/01/21 12:33] Titiana Haystack: and you got a spelling mistake Jonno
[2011/01/21 12:33] Hatshepsut Linette: on growth front we have had 2 new tenants in the last week
[2011/01/21 12:33] Jonno Stromfield: yes, but I'm used to those
[2011/01/21 12:33] Elsa Dickins: there is no magic number of avatars at which we will say yes or no
[2011/01/21 12:33] Jonno Stromfield: can't be sustainable and grow indefinately
[2011/01/21 12:33] Tori Landau: ok, ty for clarifying that bit Elsa re numbers
[2011/01/21 12:33] Erich Templar: Quality not quantity?
[2011/01/21 12:34] Shailey Garfield: Strangie, I had also thought about this; that how we can learn from existing thriving communities.
[2011/01/21 12:34] Prash Mavendorf: oh those spelling mistakes reminds me of OUSA conferences. lol.
[2011/01/21 12:34] Titiana Haystack: there you go again lol
[2011/01/21 12:34] Leornian Naidoo: sorry crashed
[2011/01/21 12:34] DeeDee Bookmite: it is good to see meetings well attended
[2011/01/21 12:34] Jonno Stromfield: wb
[2011/01/21 12:34] MarionGE Resident: wb loe
[2011/01/21 12:34] Elsa Dickins: if there is an overall pattern of growth, and of stability in the sense that the management structure and relationships are stable etc, then there is no reason for it not to continue indefinitely at this point
[2011/01/21 12:34] Strangie Vaher: wb Leo xxx
[2011/01/21 12:34] Erich Templar: Wb Leo
[2011/01/21 12:34] Rocky Joans: Seeing someone else's rules could be a good starting point
[2011/01/21 12:34] Leornian Naidoo: Shailey can you expand on that idea ?
[2011/01/21 12:34] Prash Mavendorf: welcome back to the uncrashed world leo.
[2011/01/21 12:35] Leornian Naidoo: xxx@all
[2011/01/21 12:36] Elsa Dickins: I just heard a horse, is that you speaking in tongues Eli?
[2011/01/21 12:36] Strangie Vaher: I bet there are experts in SL community law who have Ts & Cs. We could probable pay in lindens too. I'm much better off in Lindens than pounds.
[2011/01/21 12:36] Eli Larsson: neigh
[2011/01/21 12:36] Kickaha Wolfenhaut: It's Steph's I think.
[2011/01/21 12:37] Shailey Garfield: I know that Fleep Tuque (Chris Collins, a pioneer in SL) runs/has set up a community in SL. I attended a presentaton sometime ago. I was thinking that if there are any self-managing communities in SL, it would be worth exploring the tasks involved, how the responsbilities are spread out, etc. so that we can be more aware of the tasks, risks, norms, etc.
[2011/01/21 12:37] Tori Landau: Agree Shaliey
[2011/01/21 12:37] Elsa Dickins: absolutely
[2011/01/21 12:37] Hatshepsut Linette: makes sense
[2011/01/21 12:37] Kickaha Wolfenhaut: Tori, didn;t you make contact with someone from "SL's oldest democracy" or something?
[2011/01/21 12:37] Rocky Joans: Sound idea
[2011/01/21 12:37] Leornian Naidoo: nods yes makes sense
[2011/01/21 12:38] Commander Quandry: I got the impression that some thought, after Elsa mentioned having a large sandbox, that there are some in the community who see no need for any one, or group, to have control of anything. And so my question is - does the Steering Committee expect there to be a finite group that holds the reins for OUtopia?
[2011/01/21 12:38] Leornian Naidoo: thank you Shailey
[2011/01/21 12:38] Strangie Vaher: we don't want to reinvent wheels and flog dead horses (no offence)
[2011/01/21 12:38] Tori Landau: I did Kick, but their situation is very different to our's... we will need to look at communities in a similar situation
[2011/01/21 12:38] Strangie Vaher: I think there should be
[2011/01/21 12:38] Erich Templar: Do we have connections with other educational groups in SL?
[2011/01/21 12:38] DeeDee Bookmite: I see a need for control of things like terraforming
[2011/01/21 12:39] MarionGE Resident: Are we the only sim who are also a RL group?
[2011/01/21 12:39] Erich Templar: No, Marion, I know of others.
[2011/01/21 12:39] Tori Landau: ones where the island is paid for by someone else, not the teneants, plus if it was owned by eductaional establishment... all the better
[2011/01/21 12:39] Tori Landau: excuse typos, i'm brain dead
[2011/01/21 12:39] Strangie Vaher: I'm pretty sure the vampires are only SL
[2011/01/21 12:39] DeeDee Bookmite: lol
[2011/01/21 12:40] Prash Mavendorf: are you sure strangie?
[2011/01/21 12:40] Tori Landau: lol strnagie
[2011/01/21 12:40] MarionGE Resident: only pretty sure?
[2011/01/21 12:40] DeeDee Bookmite: the fairies are real though
[2011/01/21 12:40] Prash Mavendorf: i become a vampire by day in RL. lol.
[2011/01/21 12:40] Elsa Dickins: CQ that comes back to risk again - the steering committee don't have a solution in mind that they want you to reach, and you only get to pass go if you manage to map to their secret plan, they want the ideas to be yours but want to knwo that whatever solution is proposed you have identified the risk
[2011/01/21 12:40] Strangie Vaher: do you sparkle?
[2011/01/21 12:40] Elsa Dickins: so if no-one has any land responsibilities, what are the risks?
[2011/01/21 12:41] Jonno Stromfield: lol - that we have to pay you, Elsa
[2011/01/21 12:41] Elsa Dickins: if it's a giant sandbox theya re pretty low because any griefing will be autoreturned anyway
[2011/01/21 12:41] Elsa Dickins: lol J
[2011/01/21 12:41] Prash Mavendorf: anarchy.
[2011/01/21 12:41] Prash Mavendorf: lol.
[2011/01/21 12:41] Hatshepsut Linette: nothing happens or everyone does their own thing
[2011/01/21 12:41] Hatshepsut Linette: and neither is good
[2011/01/21 12:41] Elsa Dickins: but there would also be a risk that it would be an unexciting island, so you would need to be more active about events and making sure prople know when other people are around
[2011/01/21 12:41] Prash Mavendorf: or people will fight about what should be done.
[2011/01/21 12:41] Elsa Dickins: so that the space is defined by its socialness
[2011/01/21 12:42] Elsa Dickins: new word that, socialness
[2011/01/21 12:42] Eli Larsson: looks like sockless
[2011/01/21 12:42] Jonno Stromfield: sociability? whatever, we know what you mean
[2011/01/21 12:42] Leornian Naidoo: nice word!
[2011/01/21 12:42] Prash Mavendorf: socialites.
[2011/01/21 12:42] Strangie Vaher: I think if you're talking about redesigning, I'd be happy with a few apartment blocks around a central party plaza. Now what does that remind me of?
[2011/01/21 12:42] Tori Landau: looks up phone number for oxford english dictionary
[2011/01/21 12:42] Prash Mavendorf: we need a central perks here.
[2011/01/21 12:42] Elsa Dickins: prople is also a new word, roughly translates as people
[2011/01/21 12:42] Leornian Naidoo: Sholokov
[2011/01/21 12:42] Strangie Vaher: :-)
[2011/01/21 12:43] Prash Mavendorf: proople?
[2011/01/21 12:43] DeeDee Bookmite: I like the idea of plots so people can build their own 'space'
[2011/01/21 12:43] Prash Mavendorf: the new google of SL?
[2011/01/21 12:43] Commander Quandry: it's proper people - verified OUers
[2011/01/21 12:43] Rocky Joans: I game for any perks
[2011/01/21 12:43] DeeDee Bookmite: the allotments were very sociable
[2011/01/21 12:43] Elsa Dickins: Strangie there was a reason why we moved on from that - it worked for the area we had on schomebase, but on a whole island it leaves a lot of island empty
[2011/01/21 12:43] Hatshepsut Linette: around central space for events /sandbox
[2011/01/21 12:43] Commander Quandry: only a proper can vote
[2011/01/21 12:43] Elsa Dickins: whereas the setup we have here allowed for many more houses
[2011/01/21 12:43] DeeDee Bookmite: a proper what CQ?
[2011/01/21 12:44] Strangie Vaher: i know. i just miss it.
[2011/01/21 12:44] Commander Quandry: prople sorry
[2011/01/21 12:44] Elsa Dickins: of course it aybe that you think the earlier model was better with less houses - would be interested to see it revert and see what happens next
[2011/01/21 12:44] DeeDee Bookmite: :)
[2011/01/21 12:44] Elsa Dickins: yes me too :)
[2011/01/21 12:44] Jonno Stromfield: prople = proper people
[2011/01/21 12:44] DeeDee Bookmite: ah
[2011/01/21 12:44] Shailey Garfield: http://www.chilbo.org/blog/ is the SL community that I have come across and set up by Chris Collins (RL educator) and is on Twitter with her SL name Fleep Tuque
[2011/01/21 12:44] Elsa Dickins: yes, you have to be a prople to vote
[2011/01/21 12:44] MarionGE Resident: I love my house but I think they do isolate people. I think having something like the beach huts for changing and allotments could work
[2011/01/21 12:44] Tori Landau: prOUple = proper OU people? ;P
[2011/01/21 12:44] Hatshepsut Linette: if we started simple we could always add as needed/desired
[2011/01/21 12:44] Rocky Joans: Maybe we should only allow prople - no cats and birds
[2011/01/21 12:44] Prash Mavendorf: am liking it tori.
[2011/01/21 12:45] Prash Mavendorf: prouple society.
[2011/01/21 12:45] Elsa Dickins: but that is still managed by Fleep Shailey
[2011/01/21 12:45] Jonno Stromfield: we can't modify our houses to open them up at the moment marion
[2011/01/21 12:45] Hennamono Morpork: How about replace houses with plots? Put building of choice or keep open like an allotment at will?
[2011/01/21 12:45] Erich Templar cams out to check the size of the island
[2011/01/21 12:45] Jonno Stromfield: exactly, Henn
[2011/01/21 12:45] Hatshepsut Linette: and I think we need to put trust in some of our fellow Ouers to do things for us
[2011/01/21 12:45] Tori Landau: agree henn
[2011/01/21 12:45] Leornian Naidoo: Yes Hats
[2011/01/21 12:45] Elsa Dickins: I like that idea but again you have to nail the bit about who administrates the land management
[2011/01/21 12:46] Commander Quandry: Are these things that have to be decided by March?
[2011/01/21 12:46] Commander Quandry: Surely these sort of things are for after the handover
[2011/01/21 12:46] Titiana Haystack: i think disparate housing would look awful, and pouple would still hide inside them (like what I do)
[2011/01/21 12:46] Jonno Stromfield: I'd like to see some of the housing restriction relaxed before then. Any chance?
[2011/01/21 12:46] DeeDee Bookmite: I think terraforming and permissions etc should be entrusted to a few people but the whole community can do things for themselves surely
[2011/01/21 12:46] Commander Quandry: we should be deciding now about how we get to the point where we can make these choices
[2011/01/21 12:46] Commander Quandry: I am right Elsa?
[2011/01/21 12:46] Jonno Stromfield: at least make it Christmas rules
[2011/01/21 12:46] Strangie Vaher: Don't they have to know who they're handing over to?
[2011/01/21 12:47] Elsa Dickins: what has to be decided by March is a plan that demonstrates how you will move forward, so if you decide to have three people who are gods and will decide on the fate of the rest of the island, we need to know that, not necessarily what theya re going to decide
[2011/01/21 12:47] Hatshepsut Linette: I would think so Strangie
[2011/01/21 12:47] Prash Mavendorf: can we create a group called the Frouple Society?
[2011/01/21 12:47] Elsa Dickins: (although of course we'd need to see the risks attached to that idea blah blah blah)
[2011/01/21 12:47] Elsa Dickins: yes CQ, right
[2011/01/21 12:47] Strangie Vaher: So what would be a reasonable number of people to be in charge with various rights?
[2011/01/21 12:47] Prash Mavendorf: 5
[2011/01/21 12:47] Lazarus Loxely: 5
[2011/01/21 12:48] Commander Quandry: 5
[2011/01/21 12:48] Prash Mavendorf: echo.
[2011/01/21 12:48] Jonno Stromfield: 0
[2011/01/21 12:48] Prash Mavendorf: 0 ^ 1
[2011/01/21 12:48] Kered Rickena: 5
[2011/01/21 12:48] Hatshepsut Linette: I would be happy with 5
[2011/01/21 12:48] Commander Quandry: Jonno - there has to be at least 1
[2011/01/21 12:48] Strangie Vaher: and accounting for people being unavailable?
[2011/01/21 12:48] Erich Templar: 5 would be good, but I'm not convinced we will find 5 people willing to commit the time.
[2011/01/21 12:48] Hennamono Morpork: I'd say more but looks like I'm outvoted
[2011/01/21 12:48] Jonno Stromfield: why do the people with rights have to be in charge?
[2011/01/21 12:48] Commander Quandry: I think we can find 5
[2011/01/21 12:48] Prash Mavendorf: if 5 isn't enough, we can increase it after the next review.
[2011/01/21 12:48] Tori Landau: Currently, how many people technically would be needed to act as estate managers to keep the time involved fair for those who become the estate managers?
[2011/01/21 12:48] Elsbeth Biedermann: I would say 7
[2011/01/21 12:48] Strangie Vaher: I think 10. So they would be less stressed to find the time
[2011/01/21 12:48] Jonno Stromfield: Strangie, it was your question
[2011/01/21 12:48] Prash Mavendorf: if it is too much, we can shoot them all.
[2011/01/21 12:48] Commander Quandry: in charge of control - not in charge od how things change
[2011/01/21 12:49] Aseret Quintessa: 2
[2011/01/21 12:49] Commander Quandry: of*
[2011/01/21 12:49] DeeDee Bookmite: I think 3 max
[2011/01/21 12:49] Jonno Stromfield: okay, CQ - thanks for the clarification - 3
[2011/01/21 12:49] Titiana Haystack: in charge of SERVICE
[2011/01/21 12:49] Hennamono Morpork: 12 good Outopians and true...
[2011/01/21 12:49] DeeDee Bookmite: unless they are going to run the whole show themselves
[2011/01/21 12:49] Erich Templar: Yes, service not decisions.
[2011/01/21 12:49] Strangie Vaher: that's what I mean
[2011/01/21 12:49] Jonno Stromfield: if all they are doing is administering the perms, 3 should be enough
[2011/01/21 12:49] Elsa Dickins issues a gentle reminder of the time: ten minutes left for asking me questions before I turn into a pumpkin or something else that goes to bed with the ipad and a cup of tea
[2011/01/21 12:50] Strangie Vaher: enough people to keep it ticking
[2011/01/21 12:50] Erich Templar: It's more than just perms, Jonno. It's general upkeep.
[2011/01/21 12:50] Prash Mavendorf: did u know i turn back into a labrat in 10 minutes?
[2011/01/21 12:50] Strangie Vaher: a couple spares for emergency
[2011/01/21 12:50] Hatshepsut Linette: I would be happy to help timewise - and I stress help not make decisions
[2011/01/21 12:50] Titiana Haystack: most of us say 5, and it could be reviewed latger
[2011/01/21 12:50] Jonno Stromfield: Why Erich? Can't others help with upkeep?
[2011/01/21 12:50] Strangie Vaher: 5 sounds ok then
[2011/01/21 12:50] Hennamono Morpork: Better any decision than none
[2011/01/21 12:51] Lazarus Loxely: agreed
[2011/01/21 12:51] Hatshepsut Linette: yes we need to move forward
[2011/01/21 12:51] Strangie Vaher: not me though
[2011/01/21 12:51] Leornian Naidoo: Yes Henna time will tell if 5 is enough
[2011/01/21 12:51] Strangie Vaher: i'm unreliable
[2011/01/21 12:51] Rocky Joans: For those old enough to remember "I'll give it 5!"
[2011/01/21 12:51] MarionGE Resident: I know the steering group don't have a set number of avartars for us to continue but do they have an ideal number they would like to see catered for by the sim?
[2011/01/21 12:51] Jonno Stromfield: lol
[2011/01/21 12:51] Titiana Haystack: oil give it foive
[2011/01/21 12:51] Erich Templar laughs
[2011/01/21 12:51] Commander Quandry: Elsa - what you want on the forum, I am guessing, is a few proper laid out propositions of manangement with risk assessment built in
[2011/01/21 12:52] Rocky Joans: Yes Tits, you remember
[2011/01/21 12:52] Commander Quandry: then discussion and voting?
[2011/01/21 12:52] Eli Larsson: lol
[2011/01/21 12:52] Hatshepsut Linette: me too - Janice
[2011/01/21 12:52] Commander Quandry: am I right?
[2011/01/21 12:52] Elsa Dickins: Marion - no there have been no numbers raised in our discussions
[2011/01/21 12:52] Strangie Vaher: so, should people put themselves forward?
[2011/01/21 12:52] Elsa Dickins: yes CQ, that would be a good way to prgoress
[2011/01/21 12:52] Lazarus Loxely: i thought pull the names out of a hat
[2011/01/21 12:52] Strangie Vaher: by email or on the site or something
[2011/01/21 12:52] Erich Templar: I think we need a clearer idea of what their duties will be first.
[2011/01/21 12:52] Erich Templar: (Responding to Strangie)
[2011/01/21 12:52] Jonno Stromfield: there's a meeting a week on Monday. But if you want to throw your name in the ring, go ahead
[2011/01/21 12:52] Strangie Vaher: we need varied skills
[2011/01/21 12:53] Elsa Dickins: use the space for discussions but aim to have maybe three or four models by the end of next week, and then start pulling out the bits you all like best from each of them, and then a vote a week later or something
[2011/01/21 12:53] Strangie Vaher: not me dude
[2011/01/21 12:53] DeeDee Bookmite: yes I would like a clearer picture
[2011/01/21 12:53] Tori Landau: Ok, if we have 5 estate managers, what would their responsibilites be?
[2011/01/21 12:53] Shailey Garfield: yes, I agree Strangie, a good mix of RL and SL skills
[2011/01/21 12:53] Commander Quandry: OK - off to use Word - other word processors are available
[2011/01/21 12:53] Prash Mavendorf: managing the estate?
[2011/01/21 12:53] DeeDee Bookmite: because until we do, how do we know how many we need
[2011/01/21 12:53] Jonno Stromfield: Thanks for the sterr, Elsa
[2011/01/21 12:53] Jonno Stromfield: steer
[2011/01/21 12:53] Rocky Joans: Important question Tori but not for now, I would say
[2011/01/21 12:53] Lazarus Loxely: texas
[2011/01/21 12:53] Hatshepsut Linette: CQ gave a pretty good idea of the 5 he suggested
[2011/01/21 12:54] Erich Templar: Oh, I must have missed that.
[2011/01/21 12:54] Prash Mavendorf: responsible for building, maintenance, audio streams, assigning residencies. Hiring and firing.
[2011/01/21 12:54] DeeDee Bookmite: hmm me too
[2011/01/21 12:54] Prash Mavendorf: etc etc.
[2011/01/21 12:54] DeeDee Bookmite: no
[2011/01/21 12:54] Erich Templar: Ok, ty.
[2011/01/21 12:54] Prash Mavendorf: imo that is.
[2011/01/21 12:54] DeeDee Bookmite: :)
[2011/01/21 12:54] DeeDee Bookmite: no in mine :)
[2011/01/21 12:54] Tori Landau: i'm just thinking of what other roles might be required depending on what the estate managers would do
[2011/01/21 12:54] MarionGE Resident: Just as a general question to us. How many people do we want the sim to carry in the long term? 100, 200, 1000?
[2011/01/21 12:54] Hennamono Morpork: Not keen on the job model - it failed before
[2011/01/21 12:54] DeeDee Bookmite: yes
[2011/01/21 12:55] Tori Landau: and how that would lead into the plan
[2011/01/21 12:55] Lazarus Loxely: 25 - 30
[2011/01/21 12:55] Prash Mavendorf: another 1000 years would be nice.
[2011/01/21 12:55] Jonno Stromfield: Marion - you can't get more than 40 people on a sim
[2011/01/21 12:55] Prash Mavendorf: didn't we have about 90 over a year ago?
[2011/01/21 12:55] Kickaha Wolfenhaut: We had 100 on OU this time last year.
[2011/01/21 12:55] Hennamono Morpork: 60 I thought
[2011/01/21 12:55] DeeDee Bookmite: too many and the place will be lagged out
[2011/01/21 12:55] Jonno Stromfield: it grinds to a halt over that sort of number
[2011/01/21 12:55] Strangie Vaher: 39 plus my hair
[2011/01/21 12:55] DeeDee Bookmite: lol
[2011/01/21 12:55] Titiana Haystack: lol
[2011/01/21 12:55] Lazarus Loxely: so 60 then lol
[2011/01/21 12:55] Hatshepsut Linette: 40 to 50 max
[2011/01/21 12:55] Prash Mavendorf: did ur hair cater for 60 av's strangie?
[2011/01/21 12:55] Prash Mavendorf: lol.
[2011/01/21 12:55] Jonno Stromfield: if they are naked, and have no scripts running, Henn. Yes you can get 60
[2011/01/21 12:56] Elsa Dickins: yes for anyone who isn't aware, you can have a max of 100 people on the island at any one time
[2011/01/21 12:56] Kickaha Wolfenhaut: Don;t believe everything you read Jonno. Performance was pretty good when we were at capacity.
[2011/01/21 12:56] Strangie Vaher: it's damn fine hair
[2011/01/21 12:56] Titiana Haystack: but no one is ever all on at once (if that makes sense)
[2011/01/21 12:56] Elsa Dickins: and that makes it quite laggy for anyone without a top end connection (me included)
[2011/01/21 12:56] Commander Quandry: I didn't propose a job modle
[2011/01/21 12:56] Elsa Dickins: but you can have a much bigger community than that ticking over, just not all at once
[2011/01/21 12:56] Commander Quandry: I proposed councillor with portfolios - they do not do the work - they facilitate it
[2011/01/21 12:56] Jonno Stromfield: I remember what happened when OUtopia opened a year last halloween
[2011/01/21 12:56] Jonno Stromfield: don't you Kick?
[2011/01/21 12:56] Lazarus Loxely: could we hid invitations to be estate managers in chocolate bars in the form of golden tickets?
[2011/01/21 12:56] MarionGE Resident: So basically we don't want to grow too much or if everyone turns up for the general voting meeting we're doomed
[2011/01/21 12:56] Commander Quandry: the community does the work in smaller groups
[2011/01/21 12:57] DeeDee Bookmite: what do you mean by facilitate CQ?
[2011/01/21 12:57] Hennamono Morpork: Ok CQ - I'd agree with that
[2011/01/21 12:57] Elsa Dickins: lol Lazarus
[2011/01/21 12:57] Tori Landau: facilitate, not rule i'm guessing
[2011/01/21 12:57] Strangie Vaher: LOL @ not grow too much. We're tryin' not to die here.
[2011/01/21 12:57] Erich Templar: Make sure things get done, I think, DeeDee
[2011/01/21 12:57] Kickaha Wolfenhaut: Yes Jonno. And I also remember the incident I described. Is this going anywhere productive?
[2011/01/21 12:57] Commander Quandry: I mean they hold the keys to allow people wanting to do things do to them.
[2011/01/21 12:57] Jonno Stromfield: no
[2011/01/21 12:58] Kickaha Wolfenhaut: :-)
[2011/01/21 12:58] Shailey Garfield: perhaps fixed term roles; so there is a rotation of roles and people after every X months?
[2011/01/21 12:58] Jonno Stromfield: just saying that 1000 OUtopians is out
[2011/01/21 12:58] Commander Quandry: So we don't leave terraforming on - we turn it one when the community decides it wants it and someone can do it
[2011/01/21 12:58] Elsa Dickins: yes, I think worry about growing too much if/when it happens - if you were in that situation the OU would be delighted and would be interested in helping out I'm sure
[2011/01/21 12:58] Erich Templar: Yes, we can worry about the perils of success later.
[2011/01/21 12:58] Hennamono Morpork: No limit to OUtopians - just how mant at once surely?
[2011/01/21 12:58] Strangie Vaher: don't leave terraforming on while i'm around. I make big-ass mountains by mistake
[2011/01/21 12:58] Jonno Stromfield: Yes, henn
[2011/01/21 12:59] MarionGE Resident: I'm just thinking if we need to advertise to get more people in here then we also need to worry can we cater for everyone who might sign up
[2011/01/21 12:59] Lazarus Loxely: ass mountains?
[2011/01/21 12:59] Kickaha Wolfenhaut: Yes Henn.
[2011/01/21 12:59] Hatshepsut Linette: I suggested having newer avs as apprentices for helping with work so they also learn how to do things so they can take over after few months etc
[2011/01/21 12:59] Lazarus Loxely: awesome!
[2011/01/21 12:59] Jonno Stromfield: Agree hats
[2011/01/21 12:59] Hatshepsut Linette: so rotation of roles
[2011/01/21 12:59] Tori Landau: perosonal level, if we had an exhibition area that changed evry month and chnaged things even in boundary areas bewteen r.g. plots and events space, that could help with pople coming back
[2011/01/21 12:59] Elsa Dickins: there will be a new student event in Feb - look ot for lots and lots of noubies wandering around
[2011/01/21 12:59] DeeDee Bookmite: keeping a regular community is important, rather than many AVs who just visit and aren't seen again
[2011/01/21 12:59] Elsa Dickins: and feel free to leap in with positive things about being a member of the OUtopia community :)
[2011/01/21 12:59] Hatshepsut Linette: agreed DeeDee
[2011/01/21 13:00] Rocky Joans: What's the date Elsa?
[2011/01/21 13:00] Elsa Dickins: all of Feb Rocky
[2011/01/21 13:00] Rocky Joans: Ta
[2011/01/21 13:00] Elsa Dickins: asynch, so they could be around at any time
[2011/01/21 13:00] Hennamono Morpork: Sounds like trying to run a OUSA branch, Deedee...
[2011/01/21 13:00] Prash Mavendorf: can i suggest something?
[2011/01/21 13:00] Rocky Joans: I'm in S America and Antarctica the second half :)
[2011/01/21 13:00] MarionGE Resident: Once my courses start proper I'm going to be a concerted Sl campaign on my course forums
[2011/01/21 13:00] Titiana Haystack: no
[2011/01/21 13:00] Jonno Stromfield: go for it, Prash
[2011/01/21 13:00] Strangie Vaher: no it's 9:01
[2011/01/21 13:00] Prash Mavendorf: can we have a euro-tunnel style thing between islands?
[2011/01/21 13:00] Prash Mavendorf: pfff
[2011/01/21 13:00] Lazarus Loxely: only if you wear a bra on your head
[2011/01/21 13:00] Strangie Vaher: lol
[2011/01/21 13:01] Prash Mavendorf: it's 8:59 according to my clock. lol.
[2011/01/21 13:01] Kickaha Wolfenhaut: That brings up the subject of participation Tori. Need to avoid the mindset where everyone expects lots of stuff to be around/happening while hardly anyone actually does it. Applies to exhbitions and also to simply being on the island.
[2011/01/21 13:01] Strangie Vaher: didn't we try that already?
[2011/01/21 13:01] Elsa Dickins: Rocky you have upset the chicken by mentioning Antarctica
[2011/01/21 13:01] Prash Mavendorf: dunno. did we?
[2011/01/21 13:01] Eli Larsson: Antarctica ....... sigh...... :-)
[2011/01/21 13:01] Strangie Vaher: oop no. it was a bridge
[2011/01/21 13:01] Tori Landau: True Kick... my inner artist taking over
[2011/01/21 13:01] Rocky Joans: Why don't chcikens like the cold?
[2011/01/21 13:01] Strangie Vaher: a really really long bridge
[2011/01/21 13:01] Prash Mavendorf: because they would plucky. lol.
[2011/01/21 13:01] Lazarus Loxely: i got one of them
[2011/01/21 13:01] Eli Larsson: to get to the other ide
[2011/01/21 13:01] Erich Templar: For the same reason that they like to cross roads?
[2011/01/21 13:02] Jonno Stromfield groans in advance to get it over with
[2011/01/21 13:02] Erich Templar laughs
[2011/01/21 13:02] Kickaha Wolfenhaut: Why did the chicken go to the gents?
[2011/01/21 13:02] Elsa Dickins sighs
[2011/01/21 13:02] Erich Templar: I think the meeting is over.
[2011/01/21 13:02] Erich Templar: :-)
[2011/01/21 13:02] Rocky Joans: Sorry I meant why had I upset the chickens - not starting a joke :)
[2011/01/21 13:02] Tori Landau: enlighten us then Kick
[2011/01/21 13:02] Jonno Stromfield: Thanks, Elsa and kick
[2011/01/21 13:02] Hennamono Morpork: I've got to go certainly - bye people!
[2011/01/21 13:02] Prash Mavendorf: thanks guys.
[2011/01/21 13:02] Kickaha Wolfenhaut: Becaue that's where the c*cks hang out.
[2011/01/21 13:02] Erich Templar: Bye Henna
[2011/01/21 13:02] Hatshepsut Linette: bye henn
[2011/01/21 13:02] Jonno Stromfield: Bye, henn
[2011/01/21 13:02] Prash Mavendorf: bye henn.
[2011/01/21 13:02] MarionGE Resident: bye henn
[2011/01/21 13:02] Prash Mavendorf: nice seeing u.
[2011/01/21 13:02] Tori Landau: just looked at forum - it's all set out very well
[2011/01/21 13:02] Rocky Joans: Good meeting I felt - chuckies apart
[2011/01/21 13:02] Aseret Quintessa: bye
[2011/01/21 13:03] Strangie Vaher: so we've agreed "5"
[2011/01/21 13:03] MarionGE Resident: Thanks elsa and kick
[2011/01/21 13:03] Leornian Naidoo: Thanks for coming Elsa
[2011/01/21 13:03] Elsa Dickins: Happy to do another live Q&A at some point but am going to be away now from Monday until 5th Feb
[2011/01/21 13:03] Strangie Vaher: it's a start
[2011/01/21 13:03] Tori Landau: will be great for pulling plan togeterh more
[2011/01/21 13:03] Lazarus Loxely: bye all who are off
[2011/01/21 13:03] Rocky Joans: Nepal?
[2011/01/21 13:03] Hatshepsut Linette: bye to those going
[2011/01/21 13:03] Jonno Stromfield: It'll need to be proposed and voted on probably Strangie, but that's the consensus
[2011/01/21 13:03] DeeDee Bookmite: yes ty and bye
[2011/01/21 13:03] Leornian Naidoo: yes bye from me too
[2011/01/21 13:03] Elsa Dickins: Kick will watch the forum and I can input there through him if needed (Kick - please mail me accordingly!)
[2011/01/21 13:03] Strangie Vaher: oh yeah. the official stuff
[2011/01/21 13:03] Elsa Dickins: no Rocky, Cambodia
[2011/01/21 13:03] Jonno Stromfield: and risk analysed of course
[2011/01/21 13:03] Hatshepsut Linette: its 11 pm gone here so I need to be off too
[2011/01/21 13:03] Aseret Quintessa: bye
[2011/01/21 13:04] Hatshepsut Linette: night all
[2011/01/21 13:04] Kickaha Wolfenhaut: Agreed Jonno.... needs to be continued on forum so there's a proper visible record of discussion.
[2011/01/21 13:04] Eli Larsson: sigh ....
[2011/01/21 13:04] Erich Templar: Bye Hats
[2011/01/21 13:04] Leornian Naidoo: night Hats
[2011/01/21 13:04] Jonno Stromfield: bye
[2011/01/21 13:04] Kered Rickena: bye
[2011/01/21 13:04] Rocky Joans: I didn't realise a revolution was planned there :) I
[2011/01/21 13:04] Elsbeth Biedermann: bye Hatty
[2011/01/21 13:04] Elsa Dickins: all chickens are staying at home
[2011/01/21 13:04] Titiana Haystack: bye bye all
[2011/01/21 13:04] Elsa Dickins: LOL
[2011/01/21 13:04] Eli Larsson: LOL !
[2011/01/21 13:04] Prash Mavendorf: bye whoever is going.
[2011/01/21 13:04] Prash Mavendorf: lol.
[2011/01/21 13:04] Elsbeth Biedermann: who to anyone going
[2011/01/21 13:04] Elsbeth Biedermann: can't keep up here lol
[2011/01/21 13:04] Rocky Joans: I have vague plans for a trip to the three Indo China countries
[2011/01/21 13:04] Strangie Vaher: spose I'd better try to finish one of these bloody courses.
[2011/01/21 13:04] Titiana Haystack is Offline
[2011/01/21 13:04] Eli Larsson: keep an eye on the new Rocky
[2011/01/21 13:04] Kickaha Wolfenhaut: I suspect I am seeing chat in mixed up order
[2011/01/21 13:04] Eli Larsson: *news
[2011/01/21 13:04] Rocky Joans: I'm old not new
[2011/01/21 13:05] Tori Landau: lol, i was thinking the same Kick
[2011/01/21 13:05] Eli Larsson: lol
[2011/01/21 13:05] Kickaha Wolfenhaut: tsk - and I was about to ask you for your log Tori
[2011/01/21 13:05] Jonno Stromfield: perhaps chatting in a mixed up order we are
[2011/01/21 13:05] Strangie Vaher: Is anyone else seeing chat in the wrong order?
[2011/01/21 13:05] Elsa Dickins: we should talk about it in email Rocky - you'll love it
[2011/01/21 13:05] Strangie Vaher: jus kiddin
[2011/01/21 13:05] Lazarus Loxely: kick right be could you
[2011/01/21 13:05] Kickaha Wolfenhaut: !em ton
[2011/01/21 13:05] Aseret Quintessa: yes wrong order
[2011/01/21 13:06] Strangie Vaher: order wrong in
[2011/01/21 13:06] Lazarus Loxely: wrorder
[2011/01/21 13:06] Elsa Dickins: OK am off, lovely to see everyone and I hope this is going to be the point at which it all starts to come right
[2011/01/21 13:06] Tori Landau: i blame kick for it
[2011/01/21 13:06] Erich Templar: Bye Elsa, and thanks
[2011/01/21 13:06] Elsbeth Biedermann: thanks Elsa
[2011/01/21 13:06] Commander Quandry: TTFN
[2011/01/21 13:06] DeeDee Bookmite: bye Elsa
[2011/01/21 13:06] Jonno Stromfield: i'll settle for comes together
[2011/01/21 13:06] Elsbeth Biedermann: night night xox
[2011/01/21 13:06] Lazarus Loxely: thanks Elsa bye, have fun!
[2011/01/21 13:06] Tori Landau: night Elsa and thanks
[2011/01/21 13:06] Elsa Dickins: take care y'all :)
[2011/01/21 13:06] Rocky Joans: Thanks Elsa for all your effortsd - enjoy Cambodia

Chat log of community meeting on 17th January 2011

[12:03] Kered Rickena: Ok as Tori has been delayed can we start with apoligies
[12:04] Kered Rickena: i have one from commander
[12:04] Aseret Quintessa: Apologies from Dee she is working till later
[12:04] Kered Rickena: thanks
[12:04] Kered Rickena: ok Shall we start with item 2 on the agenda
[12:05] Kered Rickena: What do we want to tell/ask of Elsa on Friday ?
[12:05] Prash Mavendorf: that outopia rocks?
[12:05] Aseret Quintessa: thats a difficult one as there are so many different opinions
[12:06] Kered Rickena: i agree but anything else we want to ask
[12:06] Jonno Stromfield: first question is do we want to run the island ourselves. I think we should be able to tell her that by Friday
[12:06] Jonno Stromfield: just because the OU have made the offer, doesn't mean we have to say yes
[12:07] Kered Rickena: is there another option
[12:07] Jonno Stromfield: yes, we say no
[12:07] Hennamono Morpork: Who else would?
[12:07] Kered Rickena: they have said no more funding
[12:07] Aseret Quintessa: but then OUtopia goes
[12:07] Jonno Stromfield: my guess is no-one, Elsa will turn it into a sandbox and that'll be it
[12:07] Jonno Stromfield: I want to say yes formally, that's all
[12:08] Aseret Quintessa: yes although I think the sim would go?
[12:08] Kered Rickena: so we do then
[12:08] Jonno Stromfield: I do
[12:08] Elsbeth Biedermann: I would like to see us try run OUtopia ourselves
[12:08] Kered Rickena: ok so a show of hands then
[12:08] Kered Rickena: in favour
[12:08] Elsbeth Biedermann: aye
[12:08] Jonno Stromfield: Hey!
[12:08] Aseret Quintessa: holds hand up
[12:08] Prash Mavendorf: can we ask for a 3 month trial run to see if we can manage the island ourselves?
[12:09] Erich Templar: Aye
[12:09] Hennamono Morpork sticks a paw up
[12:09] MarionGE Resident: holds up hand
[12:09] Erich Templar: Good thought, Prash
[12:09] Leornian Naidoo: hands in air
[12:09] Prash Mavendorf: *sticks finger in nose*
[12:09] Jonno Stromfield: there's always one
[12:09] Prash Mavendorf: yep.
[12:09] Prash Mavendorf: sorry, i missed the air. lol.
[12:09] Erich Templar: OU still pays for the island? Is that true?
[12:10] Kered Rickena: yes
[12:10] Prash Mavendorf: until the end of the year.
[12:10] Kered Rickena: and will continue if it proves useful to student
[12:10] Erich Templar: Ah!
[12:10] Jonno Stromfield: so do we need a formal vote Mr Chairman or is it overwhelming enough a majority?
[12:10] Prash Mavendorf: agreed.
[12:10] Kered Rickena: think thast passed
[12:10] Prash Mavendorf: if we can self-manage well in 3 months, then we can ask for permanent self-governance.
[12:11] Jonno Stromfield: they want to dump it on us in march, prash
[12:11] Jonno Stromfield: hand held until July
[12:11] Kacey LittleBoots: what happens at the end of the year when OU stop paying for the island
[12:11] MarionGE Resident: Might take more than 3 months to work out the kinks
[12:11] Kered Rickena: ok any other questions for elsa
[12:11] Aseret Quintessa: they would keep it Kacey if its working here
[12:11] Kered Rickena: if its useful they will continue to pay
[12:12] Prash Mavendorf: there must be some flexibility in when a proper handover can be done.
[12:12] Kered Rickena: by july
[12:12] Jonno Stromfield: What permissions do the OU plan to devolve to us
[12:12] Kered Rickena: all
[12:12] Kered Rickena: as far as i know
[12:12] Jonno Stromfield: okay, that's already been said has it?
[12:12] Kered Rickena: yes we will have conmtrol
[12:13] Jonno Stromfield: If they have said all, fine, otherwise best to ask to make sure
[12:13] Hennamono Morpork: What happens if we do something they don't approve of? Will they just wrest control back?
[12:13] Jonno Stromfield: good question
[12:14] Prash Mavendorf: there has to be some clause that says that they either have the final say or have the right to have control back.
[12:14] Jonno Stromfield: they pay - they can just do it
[12:14] Leornian Naidoo: What happens if we do really well? Do we get a promise that it will remain open?
[12:14] Kered Rickena: we will all have to abide by the usual terms and conditions
[12:14] Prash Mavendorf: it's a question worth asking.
[12:15] Leornian Naidoo: Do we have a promise that says we can reamian here?
[12:15] Jonno Stromfield: I don't think we can expect a promise
[12:15] Kered Rickena: ok thats another question for melsa
[12:15] Jonno Stromfield: but we can ask
[12:15] Erich Templar: I doubt they could promise it long-term
[12:15] Hennamono Morpork: If they do choose to close it do we have any guarantee of how much notice they'd give?
[12:16] Prash Mavendorf: we have until the end of the year... that is the guarantee. lol.
[12:16] Kered Rickena: well the islad lease will run till Jan
[12:16] Prash Mavendorf: or jan. lol.
[12:16] Kered Rickena: so far that is the only guarentee
[12:16] Elsbeth Biedermann: but we'd need notice before that whether it continues or not
[12:16] Hennamono Morpork: But how long before that would we know if they were renewing?
[12:16] Prash Mavendorf: i would expect no more than 2 or 3 months.
[12:16] Elsbeth Biedermann: I would very much hate to see another "one week and you're out" situation
[12:17] Leornian Naidoo: yeah me too
[12:17] Prash Mavendorf: but CQ may know when an invoice gets raised.
[12:17] Kered Rickena: its like any land if you dont pay it goes
[12:17] Prash Mavendorf: indeed.
[12:17] Jonno Stromfield: I doubt anyone can even answer when before July when responsibility is handed over
[12:17] Prash Mavendorf: but surely the OU gets an invoice with at least 1 months notice.
[12:17] Commander Quandry: I pay monthly - I believe the OU pay yearly - may be cheaper that way
[12:17] Prash Mavendorf: fair enuf.
[12:17] Commander Quandry: I don't get an invoice
[12:18] Prash Mavendorf: hmmm. ok.
[12:18] Commander Quandry: they just take the money from me
[12:18] Lazarus Loxely: would they allow us to take over the island if we could arrange to buy it as a group?
[12:18] Lazarus Loxely: worse case in 12 months
[12:18] Kered Rickena: thast a lot of money
[12:18] Hennamono Morpork: Where would be the point in that?
[12:18] Prash Mavendorf: i think someone in the OU will have full control, but if we have enuf money to pay for it ($10,000), I'm sure we can.
[12:18] Aseret Quintessa: maybe but then would that vooid it being OU
[12:18] Erich Templar: In theory, we could always buy an island. But it would be hellishly complicated, and expensive.
[12:18] Aseret Quintessa: void*
[12:18] Prash Mavendorf: depends on whether we stick to the charter.
[12:19] Prash Mavendorf: or agreement.
[12:19] Aseret Quintessa: a question for Elsa then
[12:19] Kered Rickena: ok will pull out the questions for elsa from that lot
[12:19] Commander Quandry: The OU will pay next year if this year is a success
[12:19] Commander Quandry: I suggest if it is not a success we will not want any other island together
[12:20] Kered Rickena: so we MUST succeed
[12:20] Hennamono Morpork: What is the definition of success?
[12:20] Commander Quandry: only if it works and they do not pay would we have to think of doing anything
[12:20] Prash Mavendorf: if the OU are happy with the way we are going and we all get along like one big happy family.
[12:20] Kered Rickena: more students using it
[12:20] Elsbeth Biedermann: we need that defined though
[12:20] Hennamono Morpork: How many more? How happy?
[12:20] Elsbeth Biedermann: how much is more,
[12:20] Jonno Stromfield: we might want to define it ourselves
[12:21] Prash Mavendorf: we need some KPI's from the OU.
[12:21] Kered Rickena: if they know themselves
[12:21] Jonno Stromfield: they don't know
[12:21] Prash Mavendorf: we haven't asked. lol.
[12:21] Jonno Stromfield: I'd rather we wowed them with stats
[12:21] Prash Mavendorf: worth asking how they will measure success and what the criterea is.
[12:21] Prash Mavendorf: stats can be made up jonno.
[12:21] Jonno Stromfield: yes
[12:21] Prash Mavendorf: u know the rules about stats. lol.
[12:22] Jonno Stromfield: but we don't need to
[12:22] Elsbeth Biedermann: statistics can be massaged to say whatever we want them to say
[12:22] Kered Rickena: there is a visitor logger on the island
[12:22] Commander Quandry: a thriving community that can be used to demonstrate social interaction for an Open University will be what they want
[12:22] Prash Mavendorf: how will the OU verify that the information we provide them matches what the visitor logger tells us?
[12:22] Prash Mavendorf: sorry, just being pendantic here.
[12:22] Prash Mavendorf: we need to think this through a bit.
[12:23] Kered Rickena: i assume we will have access to that logger
[12:23] Commander Quandry: no we don't need to think it through
[12:23] Commander Quandry: we have a year
[12:23] Jonno Stromfield: Provided Kick and Elsa keep an eye on the set up, I don't think there will be a probalem
[12:23] Commander Quandry: all we need to show now is that we can run the island
[12:23] Commander Quandry: after that we can worry about making it viable for the OU to continue in 2012
[12:23] Prash Mavendorf: indeed CQ.
[12:23] Jonno Stromfield: agreed
[12:23] Leornian Naidoo: agreed
[12:23] Kered Rickena: yes
[12:23] Kered Rickena: Ok
[12:23] Kered Rickena: Item 3
A cooperative or a hierarchy for management / Pros and cons of the ideas so far
[12:23] Jonno Stromfield: Another question. Other than reporting and sticking to OU rules, do the steering committee have any other requirements for the running of the island?
[12:24] Jonno Stromfield: woah not finished with 2
[12:24] Prash Mavendorf: i think we need to hold a 2012 Outopia Olympics... but i digress.
[12:24] Kered Rickena: thast another one added to the list
[12:24] Jonno Stromfield: Can Elsa exand on the Risk assessment thing?
[12:24] Kered Rickena: that i cant answer
[12:25] Kered Rickena: waiting for thta infor from her
[12:25] Hennamono Morpork: Are they the only options - cooperatives and hierarchies aren't the only RL systems
[12:25] Leornian Naidoo: We need all details in black and white from the steering group
[12:25] Kered Rickena: its your choice
[12:25] Leornian Naidoo: yes Henna good point
[12:25] Kered Rickena: you have to decide which method to use
[12:25] Jonno Stromfield: can we lift tennacy restrictions sooner than march?
[12:26] Jonno Stromfield: (that's my last question for Elsa)
[12:26] Jonno Stromfield: °?°
[12:26] Kered Rickena: not until we have been given the info
[12:27] Aseret Quintessa: just reading Toris notice

What follows is the text of a note card that I created on Elsa's behalf to pass on information to everyone:

Information from Elsa 17th January 2011

One of the points that arose was around managing expectations of the community in terms of what sort of a priority this is for the Learning Innovation Office (low, in the general scheme of all that they have responsibility for), and the reality of the hours that Greg and I are committed to for managing Outopia issues within a context of all virtual world activity, so none of us are able to provide daily interaction with the debate. We are going to work on writing up the discussions we had today so that the community has clearer guidance addressing the points Tori has raised and passed on from Kered (and we appreciate this is necessary), and then of course I will be available to answer questions again synchronously, as promised, on Friday. After that I am away for a fortnight, and hopefully over that period the group will be able to move forward based on the guidance and the Q&A session arising from this week.

• the Steering Group Meeting is on the 9th of March, as we said previously. In order for everyone on that committee to have time to read the community submission and be able to discuss it from an informed perspective at that meeting, it will need to be submitted via the existing rep, Tori Landau (by email to virtualworlds@open.ac.uk) by the 2nd of March please

• The steering committee are unanimous in their agreement that only verifiable staff and students of the OU should have input to core issues of governance in an activity supported by OU funding. We can set up a voting facility behind the OU portal for anything that the community wishes to vote on relating to the decision-making process of moving forward with self-governance. Please note though that you should allow three working days (max) from the submission of the request to the facility being available.

However, please note that after July there will not be the support to manage this sort on spec request, and the voting facility will only be available for major issues, for example if there should be something like a regular 6 monthly election process.

Things you might like to be thinking about as a group are how to convince the OU that the community can effectively self manage, and how to evidence that any ideas/plans have mitigated for all the associated risks (eg if one person has authority over the island, what risks might be associated with that? similarly if it is a group rather than one person, what are the risks there and what could you put in place to mitigate for them?).

Best wishes, Elsa


[12:27] Prash Mavendorf: have we discussed the tennancy thing?
[12:27] Kered Rickena: ok you shoul have the info from elsa now
[12:28] Prash Mavendorf: yep.
[12:28] Commander Quandry: Reading that I am out of here. It says students and tutors and I am not currently studying
[12:28] Prash Mavendorf: shame CQ. ;9
[12:28] Prash Mavendorf: :(
[12:28] Tori Landau: I'll try and get that clarified CQ
[12:28] Jonno Stromfield: you are officially a student for some time, CQ
[12:28] Kacey LittleBoots: me neither
[12:28] Prash Mavendorf: any chance we can have u as a consultant CQ?
[12:29] Jonno Stromfield: when did you stop?
[12:29] Prash Mavendorf: lol.
[12:29] Tori Landau: Elsa had to leave in hurry
[12:29] Tori Landau: i did notice it
[12:29] Commander Quandry: Over a year
[12:29] Jonno Stromfield: ah...
[12:29] MarionGE Resident: Have you actually finished studying or just on a break?
[12:29] Commander Quandry: I am a graduate - and I may study again, when I can afford it
[12:29] Leornian Naidoo: I have finished
[12:29] Leornian Naidoo: me too CQ
[12:30] Jonno Stromfield: we can check with Elsa on the position of Alumni
[12:30] Leornian Naidoo: thank you
[12:30] Hennamono Morpork: I think Alumni should be included
[12:30] Aseret Quintessa: aren't grads still OU?
[12:30] Jonno Stromfield: grad students yes
[12:30] Commander Quandry: we can use the Library at Walton Hall forever
[12:30] Leornian Naidoo: once OU always OU
[12:30] Tori Landau: i'm trying to find out via text
[12:30] MarionGE Resident: Alumni should definitely be included
[12:30] Aseret Quintessa: in that case isn't it still the same
[12:31] Prash Mavendorf: sadly it isn't included. :(
[12:31] Jonno Stromfield: perhaps, but we'll need confirmation
[12:31] Aseret Quintessa: another point for Elsa
[12:31] Hennamono Morpork: Also ex staff - once in always in...
[12:31] Jonno Stromfield: I think so too
[12:31] Elsbeth Biedermann: I think Alumni should certainly be included
[12:31] Jonno Stromfield: we come back often enough
[12:31] Lazarus Loxely: depends why you are ex staff lol
[12:31] Kered Rickena: but if you cant log in you cant vote
[12:32] Jonno Stromfield: you can log in for ages
[12:32] Prash Mavendorf: or you can vote via the OU website.
[12:32] Aseret Quintessa: it needs defining properly
[12:32] Commander Quandry: I can log in - I have a student home
[12:32] Commander Quandry: because I have started a second degree
[12:32] Leornian Naidoo: me too
[12:32] Prash Mavendorf: so u can vote via the StudentHome then. lol.
[12:32] Kered Rickena: then hopefully that will be ok
[12:32] Jonno Stromfield: we'll get clarification
[12:33] Kered Rickena: can you get onnto the virtual worlds site
[12:33] Leornian Naidoo: yes
[12:33] Tori Landau: it could just be an oversight in the phrasing
[12:33] Tori Landau: trying to check, Elsa has had a very long day, her phone may be off now
[12:34] Prash Mavendorf shouts: come on over Tori!
[12:34] Lazarus Loxely: makes sense otherwise people here who gain posts would they have to resign them and leave at the end of their degree? i doubt it
[12:34] Tori Landau: i think for now, assume that anyone who can access studnt home can vote as they are verified ou
[12:34] Jonno Stromfield: in OUSA you apply for an extension
[12:34] Tori Landau: could just be a slip up - she was very tired
[12:34] Jonno Stromfield: but only for a year
[12:35] Leornian Naidoo: interesting Jonno
[12:35] Tori Landau: i'm scared to try and sit - can't see evryone lol
[12:35] Jonno Stromfield: officers do 10pointers
[12:35] Leornian Naidoo: I would if I could
[12:35] Tori Landau: if i've just on anyone, i apologise
[12:35] Leornian Naidoo: let me check what they cost now
[12:36] Riss Altman marvels at all th einvisible people
[12:36] Jonno Stromfield: costs abroad are hideious
[12:36] Hennamono Morpork: Cost went up a lot
[12:36] Aseret Quintessa: What about this risk assement thing
[12:36] Tori Landau: it has Henn
[12:36] Aseret Quintessa: does anyone know anymore about it?
[12:37] Kered Rickena: ok is that it for question for Elsa
[12:37] Tori Landau: Elsa has to ratify and clarify some things with Niall
[12:37] Aseret Quintessa: kk
[12:37] Prash Mavendorf: i don't think we need a risk assessment for this island. it's been around for a while.... so i don't think we need one.
[12:37] Tori Landau: she will get back to us on more in a few days via me
[12:37] Jonno Stromfield: okay, thanks, Tori
[12:37] Prash Mavendorf: oops.. i scared him off.
[12:37] Kered Rickena: other can be posted on the forum
[12:37] Tori Landau: and of course will answer questions on friday
[12:38] Jonno Stromfield: well if she gets the chat log of this meet, hopefully she'll have a few answers too
[12:38] Kered Rickena: yes
[12:38] Tori Landau: She mentions about some of the rick factors in the note card - issues we are already addressing
[12:38] Leornian Naidoo: 385 pounds for a 10 pointer nope there is no chance of that this year
[12:38] Kered Rickena: ok so we have done Item 1 voting now time scales
[12:38] Tori Landau: yes, she will - i emailed last one to her, greg and niall ;)
[12:38] Jonno Stromfield: what happened to item 1, kered? did I fall asleep and miss it?
[12:38] Prash Mavendorf: pay by installments leo?
[12:39] Jonno Stromfield: answered before ansked
[12:39] Prash Mavendorf: question 1 was answered via the notecard. i think .lol.
[12:39] Kered Rickena: were waiting for tori
[12:39] Commander Quandry: I am thinking of starting a course in May
[12:39] Commander Quandry: this may make that certain
[12:39] Leornian Naidoo: nope no way not this year
[12:39] Tori Landau: Yes, it was Jonno - OU are providing us with voting via website
[12:39] Prash Mavendorf: i think the OU should run a course on building in Second Life.
[12:39] Commander Quandry: that's how committed I am - Anna of Niale if you are reading this
[12:39] Jonno Stromfield: there's another success criterion. The number of courses started just to remain in OUtopia
[12:40] Jonno Stromfield: I meant timescales
[12:40] Kered Rickena: SO the amount of time to Vote ?
[12:40] Prash Mavendorf: 2 weeks.
[12:41] Prash Mavendorf: i reckon it should be 2 weeks.
[12:41] Prash Mavendorf: to vote that is.
[12:41] Jonno Stromfield: no, I want timescales discussed in general
[12:41] Prash Mavendorf: discussion... 2 weeks.
[12:41] Kered Rickena: well will take at lease 3 days to set up
[12:41] Commander Quandry: add in a notice period and voting is a long process
[12:41] Jonno Stromfield: are we able to aim for March 9th?
[12:41] Jonno Stromfield: when do we get a draft plan together
[12:41] Tori Landau: actually, it's march 2nd for a plan
[12:41] Jonno Stromfield: good point
[12:41] Tori Landau: to be submitted
[12:42] Prash Mavendorf: so we have 6 weeks to get it all done.
[12:42] Jonno Stromfield: do we think we can do it?
[12:42] Lazarus Loxely: i vote for a plan by march 2nd
[12:42] Prash Mavendorf: 2 weeks to prepare, 2 weeks to discuss, 2 weeks to vote.
[12:42] Hennamono Morpork: Makes sense
[12:42] Prash Mavendorf: we can cut the discussion to 1.5 weeks.
[12:42] Prash Mavendorf: if needed.
[12:42] Tori Landau: did everyone get my notice and the note card btw?
[12:42] Jonno Stromfield: I expect preparation and discussion will run into each other
[12:42] Aseret Quintessa: yes ty Tori
[12:43] Prash Mavendorf: to give time to get the information gathered and presented to the OU
[12:43] Jonno Stromfield: yes, thanks tori
[12:43] Hennamono Morpork: Yes Tori
[12:43] Elsbeth Biedermann: yes thanks
[12:43] Prash Mavendorf: yes i did thanks Tori. extremely helpful.
[12:43] Kacey LittleBoots: yes tori
[12:43] Commander Quandry: yes Tori
[12:43] Tori Landau: good, looks like notcies are working again, for now
[12:43] Prash Mavendorf: did it ever stop working?
[12:43] MarionGE Resident: Does the voting topic cover small votes vs large votes? Like the vote earlier I think we will need better system for in meeting voting
[12:44] Tori Landau: yes, it did, not everyone got them and i didn't get one from another group today
[12:44] Kered Rickena: you cant leacve the vot till the last second
[12:44] Leornian Naidoo: Tori Anjoux had real probs so perhaps ask him if he got them
[12:44] Prash Mavendorf: proportional representation. lol.
[12:44] Jonno Stromfield: So a meeting in 4 weeks to get the plan options ready for a vote
[12:44] Commander Quandry: I can set up voting for anything.
[12:44] Jonno Stromfield: thanks Commander
[12:44] Kered Rickena: but ou want verified
[12:44] Commander Quandry: all we need is a text file of those alowed to vote
[12:44] Tori Landau: Actually, the OU may be able to facilitate us a bit more
[12:45] Tori Landau: give it a day or 2 for more info °?°
[12:45] Prash Mavendorf: i still think we should try and get the voting page via the student home page.
[12:45] Commander Quandry: they maybe - but we don't want to make too much work for them
[12:45] Commander Quandry: the idea is to do it ourselves
[12:45] Jonno Stromfield: we need a means where those who aren't already verified apply to be so
[12:45] Prash Mavendorf: that way we know who the students are.
[12:45] Prash Mavendorf: or tutors.
[12:45] Commander Quandry: that can be done quite easily too
[12:45] Prash Mavendorf: or staff.
[12:45] Prash Mavendorf: i hope so.
[12:45] Prash Mavendorf: lol.
[12:45] Jonno Stromfield: if you check in the group info, you can see who already are
[12:45] Commander Quandry: we need to know who are verified
[12:45] Commander Quandry: we do now
[12:45] Tori Landau: no, but they - yes Jonno... OU want control of this so they are going to help out
[12:46] Commander Quandry: just need to ensure it is kept up to date
[12:46] Commander Quandry: want control of what?
[12:46] Commander Quandry: every single vote we do
[12:46] Kered Rickena: some have houses and arent verified
[12:46] Tori Landau: that people who vote are verified
[12:46] Commander Quandry: I can see for the purposes of this process they do
[12:46] Tori Landau: as they state in the note card - they are paying for this
[12:46] Prash Mavendorf: jonno.. the group info on here doesn't guarantee that a member of the forum are verified students.
[12:46] Jonno Stromfield: we need the mechanism agreed. Do those needed verification e-mail greg from an OU e-mail?
[12:46] Commander Quandry: but I am sure they do not want to control every vote the community may want to have
[12:46] Prash Mavendorf: i don't have a place here.
[12:46] Jonno Stromfield: Yes, prash it does
[12:47] Jonno Stromfield: it just isn't complete
[12:47] Commander Quandry: they can email any of us from their OU email address
[12:47] Tori Landau: it's being worked out - we'll hear back in a day or 2
[12:47] Prash Mavendorf: surely a non-student can be a member of outopia.
[12:47] Jonno Stromfield: there is a role
[12:47] Kered Rickena: not all new students have an OU email address
[12:47] Prash Mavendorf: that's a crackign idea cq.
[12:47] MarionGE Resident: What happens when firstclass stops? Won't we have gamil email accounts. How will that be verified?
[12:47] Commander Quandry: they can be a member - but they can not vote
[12:47] Jonno Stromfield: verified OUtopian
[12:47] Prash Mavendorf: MGE, you can register for a gmail email address.
[12:48] Prash Mavendorf: but a verified outopian isn't necessarily a verified student.
[12:48] Prash Mavendorf: an OU gmail email address i mean.
[12:48] Jonno Stromfield: yes, they are students or staff
[12:48] Commander Quandry: I am M326057X
[12:48] Prash Mavendorf: are you sure?
[12:48] Commander Quandry: we all have an SI
[12:48] Tori Landau: yes, the new email syetm, you have to be
[12:48] Commander Quandry: and tutor have somethin similar
[12:48] Jonno Stromfield: well alumni are a grey area
[12:49] Jonno Stromfield: they have e-mail, but we still don't know if the OU will accept them
[12:49] Kered Rickena: ok its 10 to 9
[12:50] Kered Rickena: shall we move on for the last 10 minutes
[12:50] Leornian Naidoo: yes
[12:50] Prash Mavendorf: ok.
[12:50] Jonno Stromfield: okay
[12:50] Lazarus Loxely: great
[12:50] Kered Rickena: Item 3
A cooperative or a hierarchy for management / Pros and cons of the ideas so fa
[12:50] Tori Landau: please kered, as i said - more info to come in next few days, be patient °?°
[12:50] Kered Rickena: or other forms
[12:50] Prash Mavendorf: i don't see how the tenancy agreement can be enforceable in uk law as no rent is payable.
[12:50] Commander Quandry: I do think we need to decide as soon as we can the model we are going to use to govern the island
[12:51] Leornian Naidoo: yes CQ
[12:51] Kered Rickena: yes only have 6 weeks to give the OU a plan
[12:51] Tori Landau: Agreed, what is your preference now CQ, you wanted to have an eleceted council etc.
[12:51] MarionGE Resident: I'm sorry this might be silly. But what are the main differences between the different systems?
[12:51] Erich Templar: Benevolent dictatorship
[12:51] Jonno Stromfield: As I said on the forum, I think it will take time and another meeting or two
[12:51] Prash Mavendorf: can i propose that we temporarily adopt the OUSA constitution until we can form a proper constitution for this island?
[12:51] Hennamono Morpork: I propose felarchy be considered as an option!
[12:51] Jonno Stromfield: No Prash
[12:52] Jonno Stromfield: when was the last time you read it?
[12:52] Kered Rickena: No Prash
[12:52] Tori Landau: WE need to decide the type of governship first Prash and not the OUSA one - no
[12:52] Tori Landau: sorry to disagree with you there my friend
[12:52] Aseret Quintessa: I thought Elsa was recommending less govening rather than more?
[12:52] Aseret Quintessa: a smiple approach
[12:52] Kered Rickena: yes
[12:52] Leornian Naidoo: I agree
[12:52] Tori Landau: she is As
[12:52] Jonno Stromfield: almost none at all, Aseret
[12:53] Tori Landau: that's why I want to ask CQ his feeling on it now, please CQ °?°
[12:53] Jonno Stromfield: but as Tori says, we decide
[12:53] Commander Quandry: I want to see 5 elected Governors who oversee the Estate/Land/Community Controls. Under that groups of community members will take on tasks and roles for the benefite of the community. The Govering body are not so much rulers as facilitators.
[12:53] DavidMike Bookmite is Online
[12:54] Hennamono Morpork: I think 5 is too few
[12:54] Lazarus Loxely: got my vote
[12:54] Commander Quandry: Why Henn?
[12:54] Prash Mavendorf: 5 is a good start.
[12:54] Hennamono Morpork: Too easy to become a cabal
[12:54] Erich Templar: Do we have a large enough active population to have 5 governors?
[12:54] Tori Landau: ok... well, i know the OU is expecting the rep and the estate managers to be elected and after July looks like we will need an electoral commissioner so that might be 5
[12:54] Prash Mavendorf: can always amend it if it requires it.
[12:54] Commander Quandry: we need to get up and running
[12:55] Tori Landau: we do and we need agreement soon
[12:55] Hennamono Morpork: Functional is more important than ideal, agreed
[12:55] Commander Quandry: 5 to oversee the transition and proov to the OU that we can manage it
[12:55] Jonno Stromfield: provided we are talking administrators, not rule makers, I'm okay with that.
[12:55] Lazarus Loxely: seconded Jonno
[12:55] Tori Landau: yes, they are.... everyone would still have a say
[12:55] Commander Quandry: how that evolves over time depends on how much people are prepared to put into the community
[12:56] Jonno Stromfield: we also need a way of making rules, and throwing them out
[12:56] Commander Quandry: who here would stand for election under my proposal - just as an indication of how many we might get
[12:56] Jonno Stromfield: cooperation is simplest.
[12:56] Jonno Stromfield: Kered Rickena have to define the role first
[12:56] Tori Landau: yes, hence idea of a performance review meeting every 3 months
[12:56] Commander Quandry: I would stand - assuming having obtained my degree is not a hindrence
[12:56] Prash Mavendorf: at the moment, I don't know if I would stand.
[12:57] Tori Landau: me neither
[12:57] Tori Landau: , i don't know yet i mean
[12:57] Hennamono Morpork: How much time would be involved?
[12:57] Aseret Quintessa: no I wouldn't stand
[12:57] Lazarus Loxely: not me i would rather be in one of the supporting groups
[12:57] Jonno Stromfield: If it was low maintenance and didn't demand loads of meetings, I might
[12:57] Aseret Quintessa: I doubt Dee would either
[12:57] Commander Quandry: the role initially is being part of a team, taking in considerations of all OUtopians, that can deliver what the OU will want from us
[12:57] Kered Rickena: Ok commander ask that question on the forum
[12:58] Commander Quandry: so time is important
[12:58] Tori Landau: For rep and estate managers quite a few hours as the esatate managers will act as litter wardens and plot allocation as well
[12:58] Lazarus Loxely: good idea Kered noth forums to be safe
[12:58] Lazarus Loxely: *both
[12:58] Jonno Stromfield: Building group can do some prim warden stuff, Tori
[12:58] Kered Rickena: they you will egt a better idea
[12:58] Jonno Stromfield: Jered suggested that
[12:58] Hennamono Morpork: I have limited time - wouldn't commit to something I couldn't do prperly
[12:58] Jonno Stromfield: Kered
[12:59] Tori Landau: ok, good idea... how oudl that work on the permssions kered?
[12:59] Commander Quandry: it requires helping the community by facilitating their wishes. Sorting out the housing, redesigning, increasing the community and its involvement
[12:59] Jonno Stromfield: To much
[12:59] Jonno Stromfield: Too much
[12:59] Hennamono Morpork: I don't think I'd find the time
[12:59] Jonno Stromfield: need smaller groups to devolve that stuff to
[12:59] Kered Rickena: if all 5 have the task its is split
[12:59] Kered Rickena: so not that hard
[13:00] Kered Rickena: litter on Outopia is not bad
[13:00] Jonno Stromfield: the should be keyholders. If they want to be members of another group too
[13:00] Hennamono Morpork: One reason I said needed more people - share the workload reduce the time
[13:00] Kered Rickena: OU island is another matter
[13:00] Tori Landau: ok, good - don't know numner yet of estate managers
[13:00] Tori Landau: there's something we need to ask then
[13:00] Commander Quandry: we need more people to do things I don't think we need more facilitators
[13:00] Lazarus Loxely: agreed
[13:00] Jonno Stromfield: I'm happy to be on a building group
[13:01] Tori Landau: since you currently do OU - they might expect you to still do it after transition
[13:01] Lazarus Loxely: but i think we have that
[13:01] Commander Quandry: we need about 15 at least building, organising, etc
[13:01] Commander Quandry: but 5 to control the estate and land toold is enough I think
[13:01] Kered Rickena: ok 9pm
[13:01] Jonno Stromfield: I agree CQ, providing it's just that.
[13:02] Aseret Quintessa: can I ask why 5 CQ when there were only two with Greg and Anna?
[13:02] Jonno Stromfield: not housing and membership and all the other stuff that could get lumped in
[13:02] Tori Landau: greg and anna get paid
[13:02] Tori Landau: we won't
[13:02] Aseret Quintessa: yes but why 5
[13:02] Commander Quandry: to have a better cover of the time, more availability
[13:02] Commander Quandry: it's a start
[13:02] Jonno Stromfield: yes
[13:02] Aseret Quintessa: how many hours did Greg and Anna do here in a week?
[13:03] Aseret Quintessa: sorry I don;'t have any idea about that
[13:03] Tori Landau: not found out yet As
[13:03] Aseret Quintessa: kk
[13:03] Kered Rickena: OK can we continue this on the forum
[13:03] Commander Quandry: very little which is why not much has changed
[13:03] Aseret Quintessa: k
[13:03] Kered Rickena: Date of next meeting after the one with Elsa
[13:03] Leornian Naidoo: yes Kered
[13:03] Tori Landau: sorry, greg has 2 and a half days on the whole virtual worlds project
[13:03] Commander Quandry: the ideas for this island that have been coming from the community are radicle
[13:03] Tori Landau: would 31st jan be ok for next meetring
[13:04] Tori Landau: ?
[13:04] Jonno Stromfield: okay
[13:04] Erich Templar: Fine
[13:04] Lazarus Loxely: think so
[13:04] Leornian Naidoo: can we put a few different dates like before?
[13:04] Aseret Quintessa: k for me
[13:04] Kered Rickena: we only have 6 weeks so need to do a lot of talking on the forum
[13:04] Leornian Naidoo: on the forum?
[13:04] Tori Landau: agree kered
[13:05] Kered Rickena: commander forum Loe
[13:05] Kered Rickena: Leo
[13:05] Jonno Stromfield: can you publish a log of this meet, Kered?
[13:05] Kered Rickena: yes
[13:05] Jonno Stromfield: thanks
[13:05] Tori Landau: yes, kered, would you please pass the editied version to me plz
[13:05] Kered Rickena: will put it on the forum later
[13:05] Tori Landau: for Outopia's blog
[13:05] Commander Quandry: a REMINDER - http://www.outopians.org.uk/forum
[13:05] Erich Templar: Thanks, CQ
[13:06] Leornian Naidoo: I am still not cleared by the higher ups
[13:06] Kered Rickena: Chair person ? for next meeting
[13:06] Jonno Stromfield: And thanks for chairing the meeting, too
[13:06] Kered Rickena: np
[13:06] Leornian Naidoo: Jonno you next?
[13:06] Lazarus Loxely: yeah so good you might as well do it again lol
[13:06] Commander Quandry: Something to think about too - there is hosting for an entire website with blogs, photos, whatever at that site
[13:06] Jonno Stromfield feels arm going up back
[13:06] Jonno Stromfield: okay
[13:06] Commander Quandry: if anyone wants to fill it I am quite happy to give out FTP information
[13:06] Leornian Naidoo: Yay Jonno will chair
[13:07] Lazarus Loxely: ideal
[13:07] Kered Rickena: Ok Meeting CLOSED

Agenda for community meeting on 17th January 2011

This agenda has come about via discussion on the OUtopians forum and in this final form was compiled by Kered:

Item 1
How do we vote
a)Use the forum or LOL or another method
b) Timescale for voting

Item 2
What do we want to tell/ask of Elsa on Friday ?

Item 3
A cooperative or a hierarchy for management / Pros and cons of the ideas so far

Date of next meeting after the one with Elsa

AOB

Meeting to end at 9pm

Elsa's report on Steering group meeting of 11th Jan 2011

The Steering Group for Virtual World Activity met today. I reported on what information I had passed on in the meeting last night, and the range of questions, suggestions and pockets of discussion (noting that the main focus of the meeting was not to make decisions) that resulted. I also reported on the ideas coming forward in the draft constitution in CQs forum.

The next Steering Group meeting is on the 9th of March. On that date the Group would like to see a full plan for how the community want to take on the running of the island, including a risk assessment and a plan for managing communication with the OU. Just to reiterate from last night – the Steering Group exist to oversee all virtual world activity and don’t have the available time to deal with daily details of OUtopian life. This plan is about demonstrating the simplest and most sustainable way forward for the community to manage itself, with an OU representative to call on only in extreme circumstances. If they see and feel able to approve such a plan on the 9th of March then we will move into a transition period between then and July, when self management will be put to the test and Kickaha and I will still be available in the background.

As promised, I will be available again on the 21st of January at 8pm on Outopia Village Green to answer questions that arise during your discussions between now and then. In the meantime please as ever contact me or Kickaha with any individual concerns relating to all aspects of life on the OU islands.

Chat log of meeting held on 10th January 2011 from 8pm to 9pm on OUtopia

At start of meeting Elsa handed out a note card to everyone, the text of which is below:

I would like to start by setting out the OU perspective here, so please bear with me a minute while I relay this and everyone has time to read it. After this I’ll invite questions and look forward to hearing what others have to say. I will be here for one hour this evening to do this, and will be happy to come back another time to participate in any consultation meetings if you would like me to do so. Since Niall gave his Third Thursday talk in December I know there has been a lot of discussion in SL and in various forum spaces about what this means for the OUtopia community and what is the best way to take this forward. For those who weren’t there and might only just be catching up with this, Niall was talking about various ICT initiatives across the university and, when specifically questioned about virtual worlds, mentioned that formal support for OUtopia will be withdrawn from July (although the university will continue to pay for the island). Kick and I have known since we accepted this contract in March last year that the Learning Innovation Office closes in July 2011 and our current contract closes with it. The only piece of news (to us) in Niall’s talk was the confirmation that there will definitely be nobody to take on funding of OUtopia support after LIO closes. This is a very small part of what we do, so technically has a very small impact on us personally, but has obviously come as a bit of a bombshell in the community. I have deliberately kept out of many of the ensuing discussions, although I have been monitoring them as is my role for the OU, because this is really time for the community to step up. I think we have now reached the point where a lot of perspectives have been aired, and I hope that the meeting this evening can be the impetus for moving on. I am not here to chair Kered's meeting (it seems there is some misunderstanding here), but just to represent the OU in answering a few questions. Currently I work on the OU virtual worlds project for a couple of days a month, which covers all activity on all islands. I have a few more days added in over the remaining period of the contract, and Niall has asked that I spend some of that helping to establish the model for OUtopia to become self-governing after July. There are a few things that need setting out here, and then I’m happy to start answering questions. I propose, and Niall agrees, that we move for OUtopia to become self-governing from the beginning of March so that there is a transition period when Kick and I are still around to help with any hiccoughs (not least in a practical sense with permission transfers etc). Once the reins are handed over, there will still of course be a central academic at the OU who has responsibility for the island and who can be called on in times of need – in the first instance this will be Niall. The Acceptable Use Policy will stay in place across all OU inworld spaces including OUtopia, and of course all OU policies relating to communication and behaviour continue to apply in *all* their virtual spaces as equally as they do in their physical. We have been through a consultation process with Trudi de Haney, General Manager of OUSA, about the possibility of OUSA taking on management of OUtopia. They feel that Second Life is currently too niche for them to focus their efforts, particularly at what is a very difficult transitional period for them, and so they will not be involved in OUtopia’s future at this time. If we can get more OU students active in Second Life over the next year or two, then that would be the time to go back and speak to them again. I know it has been suggested that the island should go back to the previous design with a community space in the centre. On our very first Halls space there were 24 apartments and a small central space. When we moved to a new area on SchomeBase there were over 40 apartments and some careful design to make a central platform that felt small, despite the necessarily large perimeter. When we got a whole island it was impossible to put all the houses around the outside of a central space that lent itself to a feeling of intimacy, hence we ended up with the Village Green instead. For what it’s worth, from my own experience over the years I have been in Second Life, I would suggest that the island moves to becoming a giant sandpit with a long return period, with perhaps one or two key permanent spaces for information etc, and then there is little need for a big governance structure. Am happy to elaborate on why if anyone is interested, BUT, what you actually do with it is of course now up to you, and you have to decide together what’s right for going forward. I hope that this evening I can answer any questions that help make the situation as clear as possible, and that you then start a consultation process among yourselves, with Kick and I around in the background to generally keep an eye on things and provide input where it’s useful and/or necessary (ie as representatives of the university) to do so. Elsa

Once everyone had read the note card then the discussions/questions began and this is the log of what transpired:

[2011/01/10 12:11] Delayne Resident: my understanding is that ou still supports OUtopia it is merely the financial support which will b removed in July
[2011/01/10 12:11] Anjoux Herbit: thank you very much for that Elsa
[2011/01/10 12:11] Elsa Dickins: yw Anjoux :)
[2011/01/10 12:12] Anjoux Herbit: may I ask a question?
[2011/01/10 12:12] Elsa Dickins: of course, that's the idea
[2011/01/10 12:12] Anjoux Herbit: You talk about Financial Support being removed for Outopia, and yet say the the OU will continue to pay for the island?
[2011/01/10 12:13] Anjoux Herbit: is that an interim situation?
[2011/01/10 12:13] Elsa Dickins: yes, the OU will pay the island fees, but not any time for administrative management
[2011/01/10 12:13] DeeDee Bookmite: financial support for the management the NC says
[2011/01/10 12:13] DeeDee Bookmite: sorry not for the management
[2011/01/10 12:13] DeeDee Bookmite: just the actual sim
[2011/01/10 12:13] Elsa Dickins: it's the situation as it will stand in July for the foreseeable future
[2011/01/10 12:13] Elsa Dickins: the island is paid for another 12 months
[2011/01/10 12:14] Aseret Quintessa: Is the idea that OUtopia will become self funding then?
[2011/01/10 12:14] Elsa Dickins: at the end of that 12 months it will hopefully be renewed as long as it is seen to be useful
[2011/01/10 12:14] Jonno Stromfield: what about the Ocean?
[2011/01/10 12:14] Elsa Dickins: not self funding in terms of paying the land fees, no
[2011/01/10 12:14] Elsa Dickins: yes Jonno, the ocean will continue to be paid for
[2011/01/10 12:15] Anjoux Herbit: phew - at least we have a future here
[2011/01/10 12:15] Jonno Stromfield: will it be managed by us, or the OU?
[2011/01/10 12:15] Lilac Lupindo: is this justabout OUtopia?
[2011/01/10 12:15] Elsa Dickins: self sustaining in terms of looking after itself
[2011/01/10 12:15] Hennamono Morpork: Does this apply to all OU sims or just OUtopia?
[2011/01/10 12:15] Elsa Dickins: yes, this is just about outopia
[2011/01/10 12:15] Jonno Stromfield: okay
[2011/01/10 12:15] Hennamono Morpork: Will the other sims survive?
[2011/01/10 12:15] Elsbeth Biedermann: Elsa, could you expand on your suggestion about the big sandbox idea please?
[2011/01/10 12:16] Elsa Dickins: Jonno it will be managed by you all as outopians
[2011/01/10 12:16] Anjoux Herbit: So.... we need to become self-managing -maybe even a rebranding exercise
[2011/01/10 12:16] Elsa Dickins: Henn, yes as far as I know for the foreseeable future yes, we have just paid the fees for them for another 12 months
[2011/01/10 12:16] Rocky Joans: Yes I'm not clear about tghe sandbox idea
[2011/01/10 12:16] Jonno Stromfield: the ocean? So it's not just about OUtopia, but the ocean sim too?
[2011/01/10 12:16] Elsa Dickins: branding is a sensitive area as this is still funded and owned by the OU
[2011/01/10 12:16] Leornian Naidoo: Anj please explain rebranding
[2011/01/10 12:16] Anjoux Herbit: sorry - too strong a term perhaps
[2011/01/10 12:17] Prash Mavendorf: it seems the sandbox is used more by non-ou users than ou users themselves... which is a shame.
[2011/01/10 12:17] Anjoux Herbit: it's really about us - the SL inhabitants taking overoutopia and making it our own
[2011/01/10 12:17] Anjoux Herbit: ...whilst remaining within the boundaries set for us by the OU
[2011/01/10 12:18] DeeDee Bookmite: I liked the idea (not sure by whom or where I read it) where we have a sort of warehouse of freebies that we make
[2011/01/10 12:18] Lazarus Loxely smiles evily
[2011/01/10 12:18] Tori Landau: We already have the shop - same idea really
[2011/01/10 12:18] Elsa Dickins: Els - I think the houses take quite a bit of managing in an administrative sense, and that there is a lot to be dealt with in terms of permissions etc around the island. If there continue to be buildingd and dedicated spaces there will always be discussion about ownership and levels of authority, and I think there is a danger of that becoming more important than the social side of ehat happens here. So, a giant sandbox can be whatever people want it to be in theat moment in the space around them
[2011/01/10 12:18] Rocky Joans: Sounds a great idea DeeDee but maybe it should come after we have sorted a structure
[2011/01/10 12:19] DeeDee Bookmite: the shop is too small and not a lot in it
[2011/01/10 12:19] DeeDee Bookmite: yes Rocky that is for the future
[2011/01/10 12:19] Elsa Dickins: so why would a different shop have more in it?
[2011/01/10 12:19] Jonno Stromfield: lol
[2011/01/10 12:19] Elsbeth Biedermann: there's not a lot in it because there aren't an awful lot of submissions by OUtopia
[2011/01/10 12:19] Leornian Naidoo: So for instance if we have a festival or exhibit then the sets can stay for longer periods?
[2011/01/10 12:20] Lazarus Loxely: we need a mechanism to continue to fill a shop / warehouse
[2011/01/10 12:20] Leornian Naidoo: even days for an exhibit?
[2011/01/10 12:20] DeeDee Bookmite: more like a warehouse where people can place stuff they make, the shop is small and not much fits in it
[2011/01/10 12:20] Lazarus Loxely: like the monthly building prize idea
[2011/01/10 12:20] Elsbeth Biedermann: I put in there all that I can, that has the right permissions to sell
[2011/01/10 12:20] Tori Landau: Maybe we can get back to the main topic this evening everyone - ideas are for later
[2011/01/10 12:20] DeeDee Bookmite: indeed
[2011/01/10 12:20] Jonno Stromfield: So I still don't know if we are also managing the Ocean sim or not
[2011/01/10 12:20] Cadence Mhia: what is th main topic of this evening?
[2011/01/10 12:20] DeeDee Bookmite: so the main topic is what we want here?
[2011/01/10 12:21] Rocky Joans: Can I ask again about you sandbocxidea Elsa?
[2011/01/10 12:21] MarionGE Resident: Can I ask presisely what tasks so the administrators do at this time?
[2011/01/10 12:21] DeeDee Bookmite: I don't think there is a need for houses
[2011/01/10 12:21] Boadicea Apfelbaum: if we are to manage OUtopia ourselves, how do we go about it?
[2011/01/10 12:21] Elsa Dickins: as far as I am concerned this evening was an opportunity for me to clear up the university's position and for people to ask me questions
[2011/01/10 12:21] Elsa Dickins: Jonno - no, this is just about outopia NOT the ocean sim
[2011/01/10 12:21] Rocky Joans: Yes that's what I understood - I don't think we're going to decide anything tonight
[2011/01/10 12:22] Jonno Stromfield: okay, thanks
[2011/01/10 12:22] ThePlague Wirefly: this is the wrong forum to decide - without any structure - how to manage an island - I agree Elsa, this is just for slarifying positions, moving forward needs a plan with a timeline
[2011/01/10 12:22] Tori Landau: Would the university feel that an elected committee that liases with the university be the best way forward in your opinion Elsa?
[2011/01/10 12:22] Elsa Dickins: sandbox idea Rocky is just that most of the content of the island is cleared and a few information areas remain, maybe some trees if people want landscaping
[2011/01/10 12:22] Rocky Joans: Sounds a good idea Tori
[2011/01/10 12:23] Rocky Joans: Can I ask why you feel that would be best Elsa?
[2011/01/10 12:23] Elsa Dickins: the steering committee is ope to suggestions Tori
[2011/01/10 12:23] Delayne Resident: that sounds like the constitution that Kered has posted to the forum Tori
[2011/01/10 12:23] Delayne Resident: what steering committee
[2011/01/10 12:23] Hennamono Morpork: It needs some sort of commitee and ideally it should be democratic
[2011/01/10 12:23] Delayne Resident: when was the steering committee formed and who is in it?
[2011/01/10 12:23] Cadence Mhia: a comitee puts a lot of pressure on individuals - teams wuld be more likely to support people
[2011/01/10 12:23] Anjoux Herbit: it would also need to be accountable
[2011/01/10 12:23] Tori Landau: Remember that I have also been working on it delayne, as i said on forum before kered posted and as Niall also knows
[2011/01/10 12:24] Rocky Joans: I think it must be democratic Henn but maybe with an automatic OU rep
[2011/01/10 12:24] Lazarus Loxely: has the OU asked you to report on our progress between march & the end of your contract? and if so do they have any plans if we turn this into a lord of the flies affair
[2011/01/10 12:24] DeeDee Bookmite: yes who is the steering committee?
[2011/01/10 12:24] Commander Quandry: Steering Committee? What does that consist of?
[2011/01/10 12:24] Elsa Dickins: Rocky - for reasons as above, I think there is a danger that it all becomes about people and personalities and who wants what and lots of people each thinking they know what is right for everyone else if there is too much that has to be 'managed' - but that's just an opinion
[2011/01/10 12:24] Jonno Stromfield: I thought Marion's question was a good one, what does admin consist of, you've said how much time you put in, Elsa, but what about Kick's time? How many hours a week in total?
[2011/01/10 12:24] Elsa Dickins: the steering committee includes me, Niall and a bunch of other academics
[2011/01/10 12:25] DeeDee Bookmite: ah good
[2011/01/10 12:25] Rocky Joans: And what do you do Elsa?
[2011/01/10 12:25] Elsa Dickins: we meet once every 6 weeks and discuss actions relating to virtual world activity
[2011/01/10 12:25] Elsa Dickins: for example the move from PG to mature rating was ratified by the steering committee
[2011/01/10 12:25] Rocky Joans: So it is/was the final decison maker?
[2011/01/10 12:26] Elsa Dickins: at the moment Kick has 2 and a half days a week on all virtual world stuff
[2011/01/10 12:26] Elsa Dickins: Kick you have a better idea than me how much of that is spent on OUtopia?
[2011/01/10 12:26] Delayne Resident: how much of that is devoted to outopia?
[2011/01/10 12:26] Commander Quandry: And the Steering Comittee has no steer on how it woud like us to work
[2011/01/10 12:26] Elsa Dickins: the steering group makes final decisions
[2011/01/10 12:26] Jonno Stromfield: Is it envisaged that the same committee will remain in charge post July?
[2011/01/10 12:27] Elsa Dickins: the steering group will continue to be active as long as the university has a presence in virtual worlds
[2011/01/10 12:27] Tori Landau: That's a good point... does the steering group have a plan envisaged for us to become self-organising?
[2011/01/10 12:27] Boadicea Apfelbaum: good question
[2011/01/10 12:27] Aseret Quintessa: So what will the process be to get to a take over point with an OUtopian run committee?
[2011/01/10 12:28] Elsa Dickins: it's a common process within a university - there is an academic board that oversees issues relating to finance, reputation, brand, academic interests etc etc
[2011/01/10 12:28] Elsa Dickins: there are lots of steering groups for lots of activity areas
[2011/01/10 12:29] Prash Mavendorf: so is there room for a sub-steering-group then?
[2011/01/10 12:29] Jonno Stromfield: If we need to work under tight committee guidelines going to them for small things, we'll need a day-to-day liason. If it's only big things, say reporting once a quarter, it's less important.
[2011/01/10 12:29] Boadicea Apfelbaum: So are we to decide things amongst ourselves and then take final ideas tot he steering group for approval?
[2011/01/10 12:29] Elsa Dickins: the steering group are not there to ratify every small decision with regard to outopia
[2011/01/10 12:29] Delayne Resident: the sandbox in main island rarely used, the giant one 1 or 2 people at most so making this a sandbox pretty well ensures outopia wont exist b able to attract and retain new members so will dissappear dec 2011
[2011/01/10 12:30] Elsa Dickins: they meet for an hour every 6 weeks and cover all aspects of OU virtual world activity
[2011/01/10 12:30] Rocky Joans: The way I see it we would have an elected managed ment group to run OUtopia but the Steering group would have final decision on major items - does that sound right Elsa?
[2011/01/10 12:30] Anjoux Herbit: Is that official Delayne?
[2011/01/10 12:30] Kered Rickena: so how do we know that we are complying with the steering groups agenda
[2011/01/10 12:30] Delayne Resident: well if all we have here is a sandbox why will people come?
[2011/01/10 12:31] Jonno Stromfield: we can decide what we want to do, Delayne. Elsa's idea is just a suggestion
[2011/01/10 12:31] Hennamono Morpork: I don't think we should worry about what the place might be in the future only about how to organise such decisions
[2011/01/10 12:31] Rocky Joans: I wonder if Elsa means a sandbox like the one on the other island - that's what I'm not clear about
[2011/01/10 12:31] Rocky Joans: Yes Henn - I think you are right
[2011/01/10 12:31] Jonno Stromfield: It's a better first step,, Henn, I agree
[2011/01/10 12:31] Elsa Dickins: the steering group doesn't have an agenda as such - theya re there to STEER when needed. So, I whope that you will all go away and discuss your ideas, and then come back to me with a plan and I will take that to the steering group to discuss
[2011/01/10 12:31] Lilac Lupindo: Nt Sandboxes are good. we can hold impromptu parties etc.
[2011/01/10 12:31] Aseret Quintessa: yes I agree too Henn
[2011/01/10 12:32] Eshala Tabacznyk: I think before we decide what we are or aren't going to turn OUtopia into we need to work on how the running of the island will take place
[2011/01/10 12:32] Boadicea Apfelbaum: Whatever it becomes, how do we get organised?
[2011/01/10 12:32] Elsa Dickins: if it seems to be workable, they will have little tot do with it
[2011/01/10 12:32] Anjoux Herbit: I think this meeting is less to do with what remains on the island, and more to do with how we manage the handover
[2011/01/10 12:32] Anjoux Herbit: and interface with the OU proper
[2011/01/10 12:32] Tori Landau: Agree Anj
[2011/01/10 12:32] Rocky Joans: Agreed Anjoux
[2011/01/10 12:32] Elsa Dickins: Yes Rocky, but only very major items, like significant change
[2011/01/10 12:32] Jonno Stromfield: so will we go through you, Elsa, or will we be allowed a rep on the committee?
[2011/01/10 12:33] Elsa Dickins: [Rocky - re sandbox I mean for the entire space to be a sandbox, without the houses and other buildings]
[2011/01/10 12:33] Rocky Joans: Can I ask Elsa - is your sandbox idea so that people could build what they want, have parties etec - not a sandbox like by the NUbie centre?
[2011/01/10 12:33] DeeDee Bookmite: so we could rez props etc for functions?
[2011/01/10 12:33] Delayne Resident: so anyone wandering over to outopia will see nothing, have nothing to do
[2011/01/10 12:34] Elsa Dickins: you don't need to worry about the steering committee, there will eb ONE person who you can go to if there is a signifcant issue that needs an OU response
[2011/01/10 12:34] Tori Landau: We already can - remember any of us can build on the green as i said in my post re events on the forums
[2011/01/10 12:34] Delayne Resident: noubies cant build
[2011/01/10 12:34] Anjoux Herbit: Indeed - I do it all the time
[2011/01/10 12:34] Delayne Resident: they dont know how, they can barely walk
[2011/01/10 12:34] lizit Cleanslate: I managed a sim for another university as a sandbox - basically everybody had building rights and decisions were taken by the group as to what would be build where
[2011/01/10 12:34] Lilac Lupindo: why notDelayne?
[2011/01/10 12:34] Commander Quandry: Anyone in the group - with the group set as active can build
[2011/01/10 12:34] DeeDee Bookmite: yes I know. I was asking Elsa was that the idea she is talking about; a giant sand box and if we want fucntions or anything else we build props
[2011/01/10 12:35] Aseret Quintessa: The first tranch of students in June 08 managed without much to do Delayne, a lot of us are still here
[2011/01/10 12:35] Leornian Naidoo: Did that work well lizit?
[2011/01/10 12:35] Commander Quandry: May I remind those that know, and tell those that do not, that there is a forum at http://www.outopians.org.uk/forum where we can collect and debate ideas as we think of them
[2011/01/10 12:35] Elsa Dickins: yes deedee - the entire island has building perms and anyone can rez whatever they like - maybe different return periods in different areas
[2011/01/10 12:35] Rocky Joans: So in effect you are saying the currently the village green is a sandbox?
[2011/01/10 12:35] lizit Cleanslate: yes it did Leo
[2011/01/10 12:35] Boadicea Apfelbaum: couldn't this become rather anarchic?
[2011/01/10 12:35] Tori Landau: yes, it is Rocky and has been for a while
[2011/01/10 12:35] Elsa Dickins: that way there is no need for committees etc to 'manage' the space
[2011/01/10 12:36] Eshala Tabacznyk: so the space would just look after itself really
[2011/01/10 12:36] Commander Quandry: the forum also has sections for help with building, scripting, clothing, etc
[2011/01/10 12:36] Eshala Tabacznyk: we'd just come along and do as we please
[2011/01/10 12:36] Leornian Naidoo: It sounds quite sensible
[2011/01/10 12:36] DeeDee Bookmite: I like that idea
[2011/01/10 12:36] Leornian Naidoo: simple efficient
[2011/01/10 12:36] Jonno Stromfield: not quite look after itself. The prim warden has an important role in that
[2011/01/10 12:36] Cadence Mhia: who will be responsible for taking care f noubies
[2011/01/10 12:37] Anjoux Herbit: very utopian - but I think the OU will require very much more than a space which has no management
[2011/01/10 12:37] DeeDee Bookmite: also we will need some sort of committee for functions etc
[2011/01/10 12:37] Eshala Tabacznyk: if it's a sandbox it would have a return time though I imaginee
[2011/01/10 12:37] Anjoux Herbit: it will require proof of usefulness
[2011/01/10 12:37] Cadence Mhia: there are a whole load of the thing that neeed to be supported to make the iland rn
[2011/01/10 12:37] Commander Quandry: and there is still the need to manage the community; set spaces, eject avs where needed, manage the groups, etc
[2011/01/10 12:37] Delayne Resident: how will u attract new people
[2011/01/10 12:37] Leornian Naidoo: Can the return time be extended if we have an exhibit?
[2011/01/10 12:37] Lilac Lupindo: us e have always tried to help with noubies.
[2011/01/10 12:37] Lazarus Loxely: i assume we can control return times and certain things which have been wonderfully created could be made perm
[2011/01/10 12:37] Leornian Naidoo: I maen for a few days?
[2011/01/10 12:38] Elsa Dickins: if people want to organise functions etc etc that's easy with a sandbox space, you can just get together and do it, anyone can
[2011/01/10 12:38] Anjoux Herbit: don't forget that sef governing or not, it will still represent the OU in name looks usage
[2011/01/10 12:38] Tori Landau: Yes, good point Anj
[2011/01/10 12:38] Anjoux Herbit: and it will bear the OU name and logo
[2011/01/10 12:38] ThePlague Wirefly: Anj makes a good point here
[2011/01/10 12:38] DeeDee Bookmite: yes and OU reputation kept in mind
[2011/01/10 12:38] Lilac Lupindo: we still have greeters/helpers to help noubies.
[2011/01/10 12:38] Anjoux Herbit: and open sandbox will not satisfy the OU I fear
[2011/01/10 12:38] Anjoux Herbit: an*
[2011/01/10 12:39] ThePlague Wirefly: I dont think you can have just a floating space populated as and when as and so required
[2011/01/10 12:39] Tori Landau: yes, and the buddies too who can be contacted anytime
[2011/01/10 12:39] Jonno Stromfield: Technically all this can be done. We have to decide what we want, and agree the overall plan with the committee, I guess.
[2011/01/10 12:39] ThePlague Wirefly: you cant account for it then either
[2011/01/10 12:39] Elsa Dickins: I think it would need a couple of volunteers who have the right perms
[2011/01/10 12:39] Elsa Dickins: but no management structure
[2011/01/10 12:39] Prash Mavendorf: anarchy rules?
[2011/01/10 12:39] Leornian Naidoo: excellent
[2011/01/10 12:39] Delayne Resident: no society will work effecitvely like that
[2011/01/10 12:39] Leornian Naidoo: oops
[2011/01/10 12:39] Anjoux Herbit: or - an elected council
[2011/01/10 12:39] Elsa Dickins: anyway - 20 minutes left. more questions?
[2011/01/10 12:39] Rocky Joans: I'm not sure we don't need a loose management structure
[2011/01/10 12:39] Leornian Naidoo: bad timing again
[2011/01/10 12:39] Rocky Joans: Yes Anj
[2011/01/10 12:39] ThePlague Wirefly: As a social sciences student I think we need to examine the principles of power structures....
[2011/01/10 12:40] Jonno Stromfield: works reasonable for numbers under 70, Prash. Kibbutzim are a great example
[2011/01/10 12:40] Commander Quandry: so who decides that a person is a griefer and should banned - a volunteer with the rights?
[2011/01/10 12:40] Anjoux Herbit: Agreed ThePlague
[2011/01/10 12:40] Delayne Resident: and who decides who will have the perm rights
[2011/01/10 12:40] Tori Landau: i think for banning it would need to be agreed by more than one person
[2011/01/10 12:40] Tori Landau: and need evidence
[2011/01/10 12:40] Jonno Stromfield: or it could take effect and be appealable
[2011/01/10 12:40] Delayne Resident: lord of the flies here we come
[2011/01/10 12:40] ThePlague Wirefly: arent we getting ahead of ourselves here?
[2011/01/10 12:40] Rocky Joans: Which is why I feel there should be an elected committee
[2011/01/10 12:40] DeeDee Bookmite: what sort of evidence Toir?
[2011/01/10 12:41] DeeDee Bookmite: Tori
[2011/01/10 12:41] DeeDee Bookmite: what sort would count?
[2011/01/10 12:41] DeeDee Bookmite: I was advised that ims and chat don't
[2011/01/10 12:41] Jonno Stromfield: are we already up to jurisprudence?
[2011/01/10 12:41] Tori Landau: for banning need chat/im and photo if possible depending on situation
[2011/01/10 12:41] ThePlague Wirefly: Can we please just slow down and decide first of all what we are doing a) in this meeting b) moving forward from it with some clearly defined objectives with timelines?
[2011/01/10 12:41] Anjoux Herbit: I agree we don't need multiple layers of management - but even one layer will need an elected Quorum to represent us with the OU and to take the tough decisions
[2011/01/10 12:41] Prash Mavendorf: what if there is a grievance on the person who has the banning ability.
[2011/01/10 12:41] Prash Mavendorf: ?
[2011/01/10 12:41] Tori Landau: yes, unfortuanetly thay can be faked
[2011/01/10 12:41] DeeDee Bookmite: excatly
[2011/01/10 12:41] Boadicea Apfelbaum: are we still going to be the social side of the OU? Encourage new members?
[2011/01/10 12:41] DeeDee Bookmite: yes back to basics
[2011/01/10 12:41] Tori Landau: agree Plague, lets get back to main topic
[2011/01/10 12:42] Rocky Joans: Yes Anj - then the committee would ban - though hopefully that wouldn't be necessary
[2011/01/10 12:42] DeeDee Bookmite: the alts will be sorted later I am sure
[2011/01/10 12:42] Rocky Joans: If we elect we'd have to think about alts
[2011/01/10 12:42] DeeDee Bookmite: definitely
[2011/01/10 12:42] Delayne Resident: power in just 2 people disenfranchises everyone else
[2011/01/10 12:42] DeeDee Bookmite: who should be allowed to stand are issues too
[2011/01/10 12:42] ThePlague Wirefly: Main topic. What we do in terms of looking after the island. We're not going to decide that here - no point trying. So can we set up a system whereby we can enable input and then if need be, debate them clearly
[2011/01/10 12:43] Delayne Resident: community needs partnerships/teams
[2011/01/10 12:43] Rocky Joans: Who says 2 people
[2011/01/10 12:43] Tori Landau: Ok... from my perspective... I would like to know what the university envisages for us with regard to committee/management of ourselves
[2011/01/10 12:43] Prash Mavendorf: power to many will disenfranchise 2.
[2011/01/10 12:43] Delayne Resident: elsa i think or tori
[2011/01/10 12:43] Rocky Joans: I think Tori the OU envisgaes we will decidse ourselves and make a proposal
[2011/01/10 12:43] DeeDee Bookmite: yes that seems to be the whole idea
[2011/01/10 12:43] Tori Landau: SL isn't rl and i think we need input from people who have the experience and knowledge
[2011/01/10 12:43] Aseret Quintessa: if this place is self governing who will have the final say in decisions that affect everyone?
[2011/01/10 12:43] DeeDee Bookmite: we all have experience and knowledge
[2011/01/10 12:44] Lazarus Loxely: but it would help to understand what they consider success
[2011/01/10 12:44] Jonno Stromfield: So if we are to define our own mandate, with the proviso that we are useful (that's the only one I've spotted, apart from the OU TOS), what's the big idea? Why are we here?
[2011/01/10 12:44] Prash Mavendorf: sl may not be real, but the people who use it are real.
[2011/01/10 12:44] Hennamono Morpork: So we need an interim council to guide the next stage?
[2011/01/10 12:44] Tori Landau: yes Laz
[2011/01/10 12:44] DeeDee Bookmite: yes what the measure of sucess is
[2011/01/10 12:44] ThePlague Wirefly: Ok so can we please stop ust firing ideas out?? We're not going to come to anything solid that way
[2011/01/10 12:44] Rocky Joans: Yes Henn
[2011/01/10 12:44] DeeDee Bookmite: so how do we choose a council for the interim
[2011/01/10 12:44] DeeDee Bookmite: ?
[2011/01/10 12:44] Boadicea Apfelbaum: are we going to have another meeting?
[2011/01/10 12:44] Lazarus Loxely: are they going to make a decision Q1 2012 on our future based on how success we self manage this island?
[2011/01/10 12:44] Jonno Stromfield: I think we need to ask the chair to chair, if he doesn't mind.
[2011/01/10 12:45] Lazarus Loxely: if so they must have a idea of how they will gauge that
[2011/01/10 12:45] Aseret Quintessa: I would guess that here would need to work for OU to want to continue funding
[2011/01/10 12:45] Elsa Dickins: Lazarus I think it will be looked at in terms of how many people it serves
[2011/01/10 12:45] Anjoux Herbit: I think that the period from March will be left to us, and has every chance to be examined as a reason to continue in SL or to cease operations her - in effect we're being given a year to make a go of it - I think they will be very hands-off and see if we can manage this ourselves
[2011/01/10 12:45] Prash Mavendorf: one person chairs the initial meeting and acts as an intermediary.
[2011/01/10 12:45] Prash Mavendorf: people put themselves forward for nomination.
[2011/01/10 12:45] Lazarus Loxely: excellent so there's a good starting focus
[2011/01/10 12:46] Tori Landau: Yes, one point i feel is important is that Niall mentioned numbers needed for OU to think it successful - we need to know asap what this level is
[2011/01/10 12:46] Prash Mavendorf: people elect the those they want to stand.
[2011/01/10 12:46] ThePlague Wirefly: we need an agenda, meeting points and the facility to submit ideas/suggestions BEFORE the meeting so we can debate specific topics
[2011/01/10 12:46] Boadicea Apfelbaum: true
[2011/01/10 12:46] Prash Mavendorf: period is fixed for 6 committee meetings.
[2011/01/10 12:46] ThePlague Wirefly: Because at the moment, we're getting no-where sorry
[2011/01/10 12:46] Rocky Joans: What do you mean Prash
[2011/01/10 12:46] Elsa Dickins: CQ has set up a forum space ThePlague
[2011/01/10 12:46] Delayne Resident: need constitution first - what do people think of the one Kered posted to forum
[2011/01/10 12:46] DeeDee Bookmite: yes but don't we need to ensure that people are bone fide students or an alt can stand and vote?
[2011/01/10 12:46] DeeDee Bookmite: I liked most of it
[2011/01/10 12:47] Prash Mavendorf: period of election is 6 committee meetings.
[2011/01/10 12:47] DeeDee Bookmite: well considered
[2011/01/10 12:47] Rocky Joans: Ah fine
[2011/01/10 12:47] Lazarus Loxely: yep it was very good
[2011/01/10 12:47] Prash Mavendorf: (which can be reviewed after 1 or 2 years)
[2011/01/10 12:47] Lazarus Loxely: if it adds my amendments ;)
[2011/01/10 12:47] Jonno Stromfield: Can I ask Kick something? You have the current numbers, what is the current average usage low and high?
[2011/01/10 12:47] Commander Quandry: http://www.outopians.org.uk/forum
[2011/01/10 12:47] Tori Landau: I've had a little time now to look at it and there are a few problems with it, but it is not for duscussing here, I will write my comments when have time
[2011/01/10 12:48] Elsa Dickins: yes I think the constitution is something you can discuss on the forum
[2011/01/10 12:48] Elsa Dickins: kick is having prpblems with local chat
[2011/01/10 12:48] Eshala Tabacznyk: Kick apologies but his chat is laggy and not appearing in local chat
[2011/01/10 12:48] Kered Rickena: Yes at this point we are going round in circles we need to set teh date for another meeting with an agenda so that all of these items can vbe discussed
[2011/01/10 12:48] Rocky Joans: If we are going to use the forum formally there needs to be a notice here pointing to it
[2011/01/10 12:49] Lazarus Loxely: great idea
[2011/01/10 12:49] Jonno Stromfield: well if can post them up on the forum some time
[2011/01/10 12:49] Delayne Resident: there is - its the grey noticeboard by the pub
[2011/01/10 12:49] Rocky Joans: Thanks Delayne
[2011/01/10 12:49] Kered Rickena: and the sl forum on OUSa
[2011/01/10 12:49] Boadicea Apfelbaum: I agree with kered's suggestion
[2011/01/10 12:49] Elsa Dickins: kcik hasn't got usage numbers to hand
[2011/01/10 12:49] Lazarus Loxely: how about a temp NC giver when you enter the islands with a link
[2011/01/10 12:49] Commander Quandry: I will put a notice about it up
[2011/01/10 12:49] Kered Rickena: to notify otehre of commanders forum
[2011/01/10 12:49] Lazarus Loxely: it affects all OU students who use SL
[2011/01/10 12:50] Tori Landau: If we are going to be democratic, we need to be elected... my thoughts were to use to positions that existed on the old council as a starting point, but be elected
[2011/01/10 12:50] Delayne Resident: no
[2011/01/10 12:50] DeeDee Bookmite: no
[2011/01/10 12:50] Cadence Mhia: the old council didn' work
[2011/01/10 12:50] Anjoux Herbit: Have the OU any issues with us as a group using a forum external to the OU, and yet representing in part it's position?
[2011/01/10 12:50] Cadence Mhia: the minutes show tht
[2011/01/10 12:50] Kered Rickena: i agree we ned to start a fresh
[2011/01/10 12:50] Elsa Dickins: I would caution against having too many positions
[2011/01/10 12:50] Delayne Resident: all nearly 100 pages of them,!!!
[2011/01/10 12:50] Rocky Joans: Can I see that I see this meeting as having been really positive - a lot of interest and everyone seems to want to find the best way forward. Thanks to Elsa for coming, as we're running out of time
[2011/01/10 12:50] Tori Landau: the old council didn't work as the OU didn't gave us any power
[2011/01/10 12:51] Commander Quandry: I don't think that is right Tori
[2011/01/10 12:51] Lazarus Loxely: agreed Elsa
[2011/01/10 12:51] Elsa Dickins: you need to keep it as simple as possible
[2011/01/10 12:51] DeeDee Bookmite: this is a new start
[2011/01/10 12:51] Tori Landau: not due to the positions
[2011/01/10 12:51] Kered Rickena: first dicsuss the constitution
[2011/01/10 12:51] Lazarus Loxely: see previous comment
[2011/01/10 12:51] Commander Quandry: no one should have to be able to fill a job to represent on a committee
[2011/01/10 12:51] DeeDee Bookmite: yes
[2011/01/10 12:51] Kered Rickena: then have a meeting to decide
[2011/01/10 12:51] Leornian Naidoo: Agreed Rocky
[2011/01/10 12:51] Delayne Resident: it didnt work cos no constitution -
[2011/01/10 12:51] Prash Mavendorf: we should take the ousa constitution and water it down to make it relevant to this island.
[2011/01/10 12:51] Aseret Quintessa: I just worry we are going to spend too much time talking and not enough doing stuff to make the place work
[2011/01/10 12:51] Tori Landau: not all jobs would be
[2011/01/10 12:51] Elsa Dickins: thanks Rocky :) Good to see so many people intersted in wanting to take it forward
[2011/01/10 12:51] Commander Quandry: No jobs should be
[2011/01/10 12:51] Delayne Resident: need our own consittuion that works for sl
[2011/01/10 12:51] Tori Landau: key positions would be elected, others chosen by committee
[2011/01/10 12:51] Jonno Stromfield: lol. those who will do, will do Aseret. Those who want to talk will talk.
[2011/01/10 12:51] Delayne Resident: no
[2011/01/10 12:52] Rocky Joans: I would suggest we leave things at nine - an hour is enough for one of these meetings
[2011/01/10 12:52] Commander Quandry: create a council of elected people - they they assign the jobs either to themselves, or others with the abilities
[2011/01/10 12:52] Prash Mavendorf: and ratified by the management cttee.
[2011/01/10 12:52] Delayne Resident: the past is the past - we have to make a new futuire
[2011/01/10 12:52] Aseret Quintessa: lol Jonno
[2011/01/10 12:52] Tori Landau: no jobs should be... - please charify CQ
[2011/01/10 12:52] Jonno Stromfield: lol. CQ you can't assign jobs.
[2011/01/10 12:52] DeeDee Bookmite: key positions and committees shouldn't be what it is about. This is about what OU students want here
[2011/01/10 12:53] Commander Quandry: the committee is a group of elected people - like local councillors
[2011/01/10 12:53] Delayne Resident: thats exactly wht happend jonno with old town council
[2011/01/10 12:53] Tori Landau: we also have to get it up and running
[2011/01/10 12:53] Commander Quandry: they then take portfolios and use other community members to assist
[2011/01/10 12:53] DeeDee Bookmite: how will that improve inclusiveness?
[2011/01/10 12:53] Commander Quandry: local councils do it all the time Jonno
[2011/01/10 12:53] Hennamono Morpork agrees with CQ
[2011/01/10 12:53] Rocky Joans: I agree with what others have said - let's forget past problems and head into the brave new world
[2011/01/10 12:53] DeeDee Bookmite: it smacks of clique development
[2011/01/10 12:53] Tori Landau: i'm going to have to read back in chat, excuse me one moment
[2011/01/10 12:53] Jonno Stromfield: we can discuss how it will work later, but I'll fight against local council politics as our model
[2011/01/10 12:53] Elsa Dickins: I am going to go shortly - I suggest you take the next couple of weeks, or just under, to get some ideas in place and then I'll meet you all inworld again on the 21st Jan to see where we have reached
[2011/01/10 12:54] DeeDee Bookmite: great TY Elsa
[2011/01/10 12:54] Leornian Naidoo: excellent
[2011/01/10 12:54] Jonno Stromfield: sounds good, Elsa
[2011/01/10 12:54] Aseret Quintessa: it does and everyone involved needs to feel included for here to work
[2011/01/10 12:54] Aseret Quintessa: yes thank you Elsa
[2011/01/10 12:54] DeeDee Bookmite: yes and no dictators
[2011/01/10 12:54] Lazarus Loxely: damn it!
[2011/01/10 12:54] Leornian Naidoo: thnx Ellsa
[2011/01/10 12:54] Tori Landau: my thought on the positions was due to fact that they are positions that are needed for the community to function
[2011/01/10 12:54] DeeDee Bookmite: lol what's wrong Laz
[2011/01/10 12:54] Eshala Tabacznyk: Thanks for coming Elsa
[2011/01/10 12:54] Lazarus Loxely: can't you have one dictator?
[2011/01/10 12:54] Jonno Stromfield: are there any other criteria you can think of, Elsa that the Steering Committee might want to pass on?
[2011/01/10 12:54] Aseret Quintessa: he wants to be a dictator Dee
[2011/01/10 12:54] Lilac Lupindo: thank you foryour time Elsa. It is muchappreciated.
[2011/01/10 12:54] Kered Rickena: nite Elsa
[2011/01/10 12:54] Anjoux Herbit: Agreed Tori
[2011/01/10 12:54] Anjoux Herbit: nn Elsa
[2011/01/10 12:54] DeeDee Bookmite: the community functioned just fine at the start without people being 'key' people
[2011/01/10 12:54] Leornian Naidoo: yes much appreciated
[2011/01/10 12:55] Prash Mavendorf: nite nite.
[2011/01/10 12:55] Rocky Joans: Is the 21st a def date? If so what time?
[2011/01/10 12:55] Commander Quandry: Laz wants total cominion
[2011/01/10 12:55] Hennamono Morpork: Lets all be dictators! :)
[2011/01/10 12:55] Commander Quandry: dominion
[2011/01/10 12:55] DeeDee Bookmite: lol Henn
[2011/01/10 12:55] Elsa Dickins: there's a steering group meeting tomorrow so I'm going to report on this evening's meeting and if there are any particular outcomes from the group I'll ask CQ to post them on his forum]
[2011/01/10 12:55] Aseret Quintessa: lol Henn yes that works for me
[2011/01/10 12:55] Lazarus Loxely: its a great short term model
[2011/01/10 12:55] Delayne Resident: surely we need to all choose a date - people not at this meeting csannoty choose the date
[2011/01/10 12:55] Tori Landau: I'm also concerned with the suggestion that LOL is becoming tied in with the constitution
[2011/01/10 12:55] DeeDee Bookmite: first Outopia then the world
[2011/01/10 12:55] Lazarus Loxely: just do as you are told
[2011/01/10 12:55] Aseret Quintessa: ;P
[2011/01/10 12:55] DeeDee Bookmite: LOL is a mag is it not
[2011/01/10 12:55] Rocky Joans: We could have a dictator of the week!
[2011/01/10 12:55] Jonno Stromfield: those who want to sell him their souls can. It's a free sim
[2011/01/10 12:56] DeeDee Bookmite: ;) lol
[2011/01/10 12:56] Leornian Naidoo: 21 January same time?
[2011/01/10 12:56] Lazarus Loxely: hey i worked in a sim that did that Rocky was great fun
[2011/01/10 12:56] Cadence Mhia: why is LOL becoming tied in with te constitution - it is the only magazine used for OUtopia
[2011/01/10 12:56] DeeDee Bookmite: is that it?
[2011/01/10 12:56] Elsa Dickins: I'm sorry but if it's a meeting that I am going to be at then I need to pick the date - nothing to stop you having as many meetings as you want in between
[2011/01/10 12:56] Tori Landau: exactly laz... i envisage that the council, whatever, will evolve in furture
[2011/01/10 12:56] Elsa Dickins: but I'm traveling a lot in next fortnight
[2011/01/10 12:56] DeeDee Bookmite: yes LOL is a mag and nothing else?
[2011/01/10 12:56] Anjoux Herbit: LOL surely should be a part of the community - not it's Governance?
[2011/01/10 12:56] Rocky Joans: I thought you'd suggestested 21st Elsa?
[2011/01/10 12:56] Tori Landau: it will have to change to meet the needs of the community - the council i mean
[2011/01/10 12:56] Delayne Resident: so llooks like we need another meeting besides the 21 jan one else will never get this island on the road
[2011/01/10 12:56] Cadence Mhia: it not anythig to d with overnace and i wll thak you ot to tart rumours like that again Tori
[2011/01/10 12:56] DeeDee Bookmite: we haven't got one yet Tori
[2011/01/10 12:57] Elsa Dickins: yes Rocky I did, but Delayne said everyone needed to choose the date
[2011/01/10 12:57] Aseret Quintessa: I think the 21st seems okay can everyone say about the 21st so Elsa knows people
[2011/01/10 12:57] Jonno Stromfield: probably more than one, Delayne
[2011/01/10 12:57] DeeDee Bookmite: how do we go about getting one
[2011/01/10 12:57] Elsa Dickins: I will be here at 8pm on the 21st
[2011/01/10 12:57] Delayne Resident: yes, i a democracy people do choose
[2011/01/10 12:57] Tori Landau: cadence - have you read kered's consttution?
[2011/01/10 12:57] Jonno Stromfield: hi, Strangie
[2011/01/10 12:57] DeeDee Bookmite: I am not sure, I will be here if not working
[2011/01/10 12:57] ThePlague Wirefly: I wontbe here I know Im out that night
[2011/01/10 12:57] Rocky Joans: Yes fine - for 21st - I also think we should not have another meeting until then but discuss things on the Forum
[2011/01/10 12:57] Tori Landau: and don't pull me up for starting rumours cadence
[2011/01/10 12:57] Lazarus Loxely: i'm in france conquering
[2011/01/10 12:57] Eli Larsson: erherm ... i didn't choose Cameron
[2011/01/10 12:57] Cadence Mhia: yes - it says LOL should publish info about the meetings so that people know when they are aqnd what was said
[2011/01/10 12:57] Boadicea Apfelbaum: I crashed - did i miss ant date setting or anything?
[2011/01/10 12:58] Lilac Lupindo: we can pos the time and date on the class forum
[2011/01/10 12:58] Rocky Joans: 21st 8p Boedicea
[2011/01/10 12:58] Boadicea Apfelbaum: thanks rocky
[2011/01/10 12:58] Strangie Vaher: sorry I'm rediculously late
[2011/01/10 12:58] Jonno Stromfield: 21st for next "official" meeting with Elsa
[2011/01/10 12:58] Hennamono Morpork: I'm out of time - have to go!
[2011/01/10 12:58] Cadence Mhia: that was greed y the own council in its origional meeting
[2011/01/10 12:58] Leornian Naidoo: 21 Jan yes to Elsa from Leo
[2011/01/10 12:58] Tori Landau: 21st jan - that's a fri
[2011/01/10 12:58] Lilac Lupindo: firstclass* lag!¬
[2011/01/10 12:58] Anjoux Herbit: let's stay chilled tonight peeps please - it's been positive - I'm sure there will be many heated discussions on the forums :)
[2011/01/10 12:58] Hennamono Morpork: Bye!
[2011/01/10 12:58] DeeDee Bookmite: bye Henn
[2011/01/10 12:58] Aseret Quintessa: bye Henn
[2011/01/10 12:58] Hennamono Morpork is Offline
[2011/01/10 12:58] Elsa Dickins: OK thanks everyone, am logging out now, was really lovely to see so many people here, makes me feel veyr positive about OUtopia's future
[2011/01/10 12:58] Leornian Naidoo: bye Henn
[2011/01/10 12:59] Rocky Joans: It's been great tonight - a good atmosphere - the way forward :))
[2011/01/10 12:59] Jonno Stromfield: bye, whoever is going
[2011/01/10 12:59] Elsa Dickins: Kick says goodbye as well :)
[2011/01/10 12:59] Lazarus Loxely: thanks Elsa, Kick
[2011/01/10 12:59] Leornian Naidoo: Thanks Elsa
[2011/01/10 12:59] Leornian Naidoo: Thanks Kick
[2011/01/10 12:59] DeeDee Bookmite: Bye Elsa and Kick
[2011/01/10 12:59] Anjoux Herbit: nn Kick :)
[2011/01/10 12:59] Tori Landau: Ok, meeting is declared over at this point.