Chat log of community meeting on 31st January 2011

Before the meeting started, Tori sent out a note card which contained some feedback from the OU:

Feedback from OU

1) People who have a free OU or guest account are not able to access the OU forum.

2) Remember that when it comes to punitive powers, the buck stops with Niall/OU so Niall would need to be consulted if someone is to be banned. OUtopia is still an OU island :)

3) The OU feel that the AUP, LL's TOS and the Computing code of conduct which govern conduct on all of the sims are thorough enough on equality etc and also please remember that these rules will continue to be in force during and after the transition. Currently there are talks happening with the Equality people at the OU to give them some poster space in SL.

4) Finally, after seeking advice, I've been advised not to represent the views of other community members on the OU forum so please do not ask me to do so again. I'm here to represent the community to the OU, not one group of OUtopians to each other. :) To assist those who don't wish to get involved in debates on the forum or meetings, Kick has said that he can set up polls on the OU website for individual issues as long as I can give him questions that require a yes or no answer.

Best wishes, Tori

End of note card.

[2011/01/31 12:05] Jonno Stromfield: Hello and welcome to our second community meeting. If you haven't already, please help yourselves to an agenda from the green box in the centre.
[2011/01/31 12:05] DeeDee Bookmite: not a lot here
[2011/01/31 12:05] Lilac Lupindo: numbers are definitely down tonight.
[2011/01/31 12:05] DeeDee Bookmite: nor on the forum
[2011/01/31 12:06] Jonno Stromfield: Two weeks ago, I think it was Henn who outlined our six week task to get a plan sorted for the 2nd march. Two weeks talking, two writing up and two weeks voting. Well we've had our two weeks talking, and this meeting is primarily about moving forward to the next stage, writing up.
[2011/01/31 12:06] DeeDee Bookmite: 2 weeks to vote?
[2011/01/31 12:06] Jonno Stromfield: in round numbers, yes
[2011/01/31 12:07] Hennamono Morpork: I don't think that was me though I remember it being said
[2011/01/31 12:07] Jonno Stromfield: want to come in on that?
[2011/01/31 12:07] DeeDee Bookmite: well apart from we seem a very slow group, no sir
[2011/01/31 12:07] Jonno Stromfield: Okay, CQ sends his apologies and says he will be late.
[2011/01/31 12:08] MarionGE Resident: would one week be enough? At this point everyone who is interested is probably checking the forums at least once a week
[2011/01/31 12:08] Jonno Stromfield: Prash is unwell
[2011/01/31 12:08] Jonno Stromfield: any other apologies?
[2011/01/31 12:08] DeeDee Bookmite: it shouldn't take long to count the votes anyway
[2011/01/31 12:08] DeeDee Bookmite: yes I am sorry
[2011/01/31 12:08] Jonno Stromfield: for?
[2011/01/31 12:08] DeeDee Bookmite: I will shut up now
[2011/01/31 12:08] DeeDee Bookmite: :)
[2011/01/31 12:08] Jonno Stromfield: lol
[2011/01/31 12:09] Jonno Stromfield: okay, matters arising. Marion, you were saying
[2011/01/31 12:09] MarionGE Resident: if we are going to have a vote do we need 2 weeks or will 1 be ok?
[2011/01/31 12:09] DeeDee Bookmite: I think so
[2011/01/31 12:09] Hatshepsut Linette: one seems fine to me
[2011/01/31 12:10] DeeDee Bookmite: it would give us another week for the plan which is the hard part?
[2011/01/31 12:10] Aseret Quintessa: in a general election we have a day one week should be enough?
[2011/01/31 12:10] MarionGE Resident: would give us an extra week for writing up which we will probably need
[2011/01/31 12:10] Jonno Stromfield: welcome CQ
[2011/01/31 12:10] Elsbeth Biedermann: I think 1 week could be sufficient for voting
[2011/01/31 12:10] Jonno Stromfield: not missed much
[2011/01/31 12:10] Aseret Quintessa: hi CQ
[2011/01/31 12:10] DeeDee Bookmite: Hey CQ
[2011/01/31 12:10] Elsbeth Biedermann: we had suggested that anyway as a matter of course for the future I believe
[2011/01/31 12:11] Lilac Lupindo: I agree one is plenty.
[2011/01/31 12:11] Tori Landau: Personally, I think one would be enough, two was perhaps mentioned due to any technical issues and I agree with Marion. Btw, I woulod like to submit the plan on the 1st March to allow for technical difficulties °͜°
[2011/01/31 12:11] Elsbeth Biedermann: so this would be a good idea to try it out, see that it works
[2011/01/31 12:11] Hennamono Morpork: As my first answer seems not to have got through - 1 weeks seems sufficient
[2011/01/31 12:11] Jonno Stromfield: perhaps if we have a meeting in 2 weeks, I'm sure voting will be on the agenda then
[2011/01/31 12:11] Tori Landau: It got through, just agreeing
[2011/01/31 12:11] DeeDee Bookmite: bad chat lag tonight
[2011/01/31 12:11] Jonno Stromfield: and whoever is chairing can take this on board
[2011/01/31 12:12] Aseret Quintessa: LOL
[2011/01/31 12:12] Jonno Stromfield: that most people seem to think one weeks vote is enough
[2011/01/31 12:12] Aseret Quintessa: CQ you're sitting on Jonno
[2011/01/31 12:12] Jonno Stromfield: ahem!
[2011/01/31 12:12] Lilac Lupindo: well he is the chair.
[2011/01/31 12:12] Tori Landau: lol
[2011/01/31 12:12] DeeDee Bookmite: hahaha
[2011/01/31 12:12] Jonno Stromfield: rofl
[2011/01/31 12:12] Jonno Stromfield: CQ pleas stand up
[2011/01/31 12:13] DeeDee Bookmite: that's one for Flickr
[2011/01/31 12:13] Jonno Stromfield: thank you
[2011/01/31 12:13] Aseret Quintessa: lol
[2011/01/31 12:13] Jonno Stromfield: the green chair to my left is okay
[2011/01/31 12:13] Jonno Stromfield: any other matters arising from the last meeting?
[2011/01/31 12:14] Jonno Stromfield: anything you want done differently this time around?
[2011/01/31 12:14] Jonno Stromfield: Has everyone found their way to the new forum yet
[2011/01/31 12:15] Aseret Quintessa: yes
[2011/01/31 12:15] Jonno Stromfield: no one struggling?
[2011/01/31 12:15] MarionGE Resident: is there a formal system for voting in world? I was wondering whether we should stand up in agreement or something to formalise yes votes since a show of hands isn't possible
[2011/01/31 12:15] Hennamono Morpork: Yes
[2011/01/31 12:15] Jonno Stromfield: Not in world, Marion
[2011/01/31 12:15] DeeDee Bookmite: the OU are providing some voting system
[2011/01/31 12:15] Hatshepsut Linette: I managed to find it thanks to others for links
[2011/01/31 12:15] Jonno Stromfield: formal votes will be on the forum
[2011/01/31 12:15] DeeDee Bookmite: aren't they?
[2011/01/31 12:15] Tori Landau: We can agree in chat if necessary
[2011/01/31 12:15] Hennamono Morpork: Voting should be on the forum where we are verified
[2011/01/31 12:15] Tori Landau: Yes, they are Dee, btw, did everyone get the note card?
[2011/01/31 12:16] Lilac Lupindo: agreed
[2011/01/31 12:16] Hennamono Morpork: Yes
[2011/01/31 12:16] Hatshepsut Linette: notecard - yes ty
[2011/01/31 12:16] MarionGE Resident: i just wondered for small things like does everyone want only a week well then stand up for yes and get a quick look at majority views
[2011/01/31 12:16] Commander Quandry: I think Marion meant for in meetings
[2011/01/31 12:16] Jonno Stromfield: Okay Item 3 them
[2011/01/31 12:16] Lilac Lupindo: i'm sure in meetings just saying yes is enough.
[2011/01/31 12:16] DeeDee Bookmite: yes the biggie
[2011/01/31 12:16] Tori Landau: Yes, if we use chat for voting then it would recorded.
[2011/01/31 12:17] Elsbeth Biedermann: just saying yes will be enough... anything else is just faffing imo
[2011/01/31 12:17] Elsbeth Biedermann: will take too long, with lag etc
[2011/01/31 12:17] Jonno Stromfield: all those in favour of saying yes?
[2011/01/31 12:17] Elsbeth Biedermann: yes
[2011/01/31 12:17] Commander Quandry: We could vote in Group Chat and keep Local Chat free for the discussion
[2011/01/31 12:17] DeeDee Bookmite: aye
[2011/01/31 12:17] Aseret Quintessa: yes
[2011/01/31 12:17] Lilac Lupindo: yes
[2011/01/31 12:17] Boadicea Apfelbaum: yes
[2011/01/31 12:17] Hennamono Morpork: Aye
[2011/01/31 12:17] Hatshepsut Linette: I read the suggestion regarding 3 areas - a base for OUtopians (registered only) to have spaces for themselves, open building space with long return time (again registered) and space for information seems a good idea
[2011/01/31 12:17] Tori Landau: yes
[2011/01/31 12:17] Jonno Stromfield: It seems to me that camps are still divided as to whether we need an elected government or not. I don't see consensus on this. So am I right, and if so how do we move ahead? Keep talking and hope for consensus; write several plans and vote; find someone to try to write up what appears to be a majority view and hope we get it right?
[2011/01/31 12:19] Aseret Quintessa: I think each camp should write up their own plan and submit them all
[2011/01/31 12:19] Elsbeth Biedermann: I would think a vote on them
[2011/01/31 12:19] Boadicea Apfelbaum: a vote
[2011/01/31 12:19] Aseret Quintessa: let the Steering Committee decide
[2011/01/31 12:19] MarionGE Resident: I think we are going to have to a vote on which plan. Because there are so few contributors on the forum it's not possible to see the majority view
[2011/01/31 12:19] Hennamono Morpork: Aseret might have a point there
[2011/01/31 12:19] Elsbeth Biedermann: but the steering committee won't decide as I understand?
[2011/01/31 12:19] Hatshepsut Linette: I am not convinced everyone wants an elected Government per se but an elected group to manage on behalf of others things like land management seems to get support
[2011/01/31 12:20] Lilac Lupindo: do they want to be involved to that extent?
[2011/01/31 12:20] Hatshepsut Linette: I hope that makes sense
[2011/01/31 12:20] Aseret Quintessa: If they don't agree with the plan
[2011/01/31 12:20] Aseret Quintessa: they will throw it out
[2011/01/31 12:20] Boadicea Apfelbaum: yes Hats
[2011/01/31 12:20] Hatshepsut Linette: ok
[2011/01/31 12:20] Aseret Quintessa: that is what I have understood anyway
[2011/01/31 12:20] Hennamono Morpork: They will be involved - they'd certainly reject anything too outlandish even if we did all vote for it
[2011/01/31 12:20] DeeDee Bookmite: I think that we do need just a few with land control or at least that I don't have access to them
[2011/01/31 12:20] Tori Landau: The steering committee have to ratify the plan, but tbh, I don't they are are expecting to be presented with several plans. We will have to choose one, however, I will ask about this tomorrow.
[2011/01/31 12:20] Hatshepsut Linette: lol DeeDee
[2011/01/31 12:21] DeeDee Bookmite: CQ will confirm my unfitness to be let lose with this tool
[2011/01/31 12:21] Aseret Quintessa: LOL
[2011/01/31 12:21] Jonno Stromfield: they will get to see the plans that we are voting on ahead of time - I would expect a feedback channel message if they though it too outlandish
[2011/01/31 12:22] Elsbeth Biedermann: either way I think we need to see plans for each of the 3 ideas that seems to have been put forward
[2011/01/31 12:22] DeeDee Bookmite: I am undecided tbh
[2011/01/31 12:22] Jonno Stromfield: between plans or ways forward, Dee?
[2011/01/31 12:23] DeeDee Bookmite: plans
[2011/01/31 12:23] Tori Landau: For helping to decide remember to look at it not just from our point of view, but also the OU's.
[2011/01/31 12:23] DeeDee Bookmite: I think we need freedom but some things should be left in the hands of those experienced
[2011/01/31 12:23] Hatshepsut Linette: As long as everyone does not have terraforming rights etc and only OUtopians (registered) can vote or build here I am flexible
[2011/01/31 12:24] DeeDee Bookmite: yes I am flexible too Hats
[2011/01/31 12:24] Aseret Quintessa: and me
[2011/01/31 12:24] Aseret Quintessa: mostly
[2011/01/31 12:24] MarionGE Resident: I definitely think we should have community meetings regularly maybe every 3 or 6 months. Make sure everyone can have a say as part of the constitution
[2011/01/31 12:25] Hatshepsut Linette: yes, that seems sensible
[2011/01/31 12:25] Tori Landau: Agree Marion
[2011/01/31 12:25] DeeDee Bookmite: yes Marion
[2011/01/31 12:25] Aseret Quintessa: yes I agree
[2011/01/31 12:25] Hennamono Morpork: Agreed
[2011/01/31 12:25] Elsbeth Biedermann: regular community meetings yes, but more regularly than 6 months I would say
[2011/01/31 12:26] Boadicea Apfelbaum: I agree
[2011/01/31 12:26] DeeDee Bookmite: yes every night
[2011/01/31 12:26] Lilac Lupindo: especially in the beginning.
[2011/01/31 12:26] Hennamono Morpork: Maybe monthly?
[2011/01/31 12:26] Elsbeth Biedermann: once every month
[2011/01/31 12:26] Elsbeth Biedermann: maybe
[2011/01/31 12:26] DeeDee Bookmite: yes at the start until things even out
[2011/01/31 12:26] Hatshepsut Linette: if we have groups involved with some jobs on behalf of the whole then that also seems a reasonable move providing it is on behalf of all not dictated
[2011/01/31 12:26] Elsbeth Biedermann: agreed Hatty
[2011/01/31 12:26] Jonno Stromfield: CQ, you are quiet.
[2011/01/31 12:26] Tori Landau: Yes, I had also thought of performance review meeting every 3 months for any elected positions and agree once per month for community meetings
[2011/01/31 12:27] Boadicea Apfelbaum: performance reviews? Really?
[2011/01/31 12:27] DeeDee Bookmite: have we decided on elected positions?
[2011/01/31 12:27] Commander Quandry: I am here, and awake, and have said enough
[2011/01/31 12:27] DeeDee Bookmite: and what they will be?
[2011/01/31 12:27] Tori Landau: If we have elected positions, yes
[2011/01/31 12:27] Hennamono Morpork: Performance reviews seems a bit OTT
[2011/01/31 12:28] Tori Landau: I was responding to concerns regarding accountabilty
[2011/01/31 12:28] Hatshepsut Linette: whilst the group is smallish as now it is less essential but we need to consider what might happen if we gain new recruits - then we might need elected people so maybe we start with them
[2011/01/31 12:28] Tori Landau: it's only an idea
[2011/01/31 12:28] Elsbeth Biedermann: well Rep would have to be elected, surely?
[2011/01/31 12:28] MarionGE Resident: If we have working groups or elected officials the community will want to know what those individuals having been doing
[2011/01/31 12:28] Lilac Lupindo: if anybody was unhappy re elected positions it can be brought up at the monthly community meeting.
[2011/01/31 12:28] Hennamono Morpork: Yes review people if there is a problem - but automatically when there isn't?
[2011/01/31 12:28] Aseret Quintessa: yes they would Marion
[2011/01/31 12:29] Boadicea Apfelbaum: I agree with Lilac
[2011/01/31 12:29] Commander Quandry: I would hope that private consideration of a problem be tried before bringing it up at a meeting
[2011/01/31 12:29] DeeDee Bookmite: Performance review seems a bit strong considering ti will be people giving up their own free time
[2011/01/31 12:29] MarionGE Resident: performance review is just a fancy way of saying have you done anything in the last 3 months
[2011/01/31 12:29] Kered Rickena: sorry folks. I have missed all of this as had to talk to a student
[2011/01/31 12:29] Jonno Stromfield: lol
[2011/01/31 12:30] Tori Landau: Personally, I agree Henn, I was taking into account if it wasn't. So would I CQ re a problem.
[2011/01/31 12:30] Aseret Quintessa: maybe its rather an update on progress rather than a review
[2011/01/31 12:30] Kered Rickena: seems a bit over the top to me
[2011/01/31 12:30] Aseret Quintessa: review sounds too formal
[2011/01/31 12:30] Boadicea Apfelbaum: who's going to have time for all this checking, reviewing etc?
[2011/01/31 12:30] DeeDee Bookmite: yes I think perhaps a review of the whole thing and how things are going after a certain time (not just elected reps)
[2011/01/31 12:30] Hatshepsut Linette: yes DeeDee
[2011/01/31 12:31] Aseret Quintessa: can't people who are building just notify in the forum
[2011/01/31 12:31] Tori Landau: Perhaps As, I think I mentioned that as well on CQ's forum a while ago - so that people would understand length of time taken over posts etc
[2011/01/31 12:31] Jonno Stromfield: if we have a round table where someone from each of the working groups says what's happening, and the government if we have one.
[2011/01/31 12:31] Tori Landau: Hello Kered btw
[2011/01/31 12:32] Jonno Stromfield: okay, so going back to the original point, does everyone thing having multiple plans is the best way?
[2011/01/31 12:32] Jonno Stromfield: think
[2011/01/31 12:32] Kered Rickena: sorry will have to comment on all this later after I read it back
[2011/01/31 12:32] Tori Landau: Agree Jonno re round table
[2011/01/31 12:32] Kered Rickena: no
[2011/01/31 12:32] Kered Rickena: the OU want a plan
[2011/01/31 12:32] Lilac Lupindo: who will draw up all these plans then.
[2011/01/31 12:32] Kered Rickena: we cant say to them chose
[2011/01/31 12:33] Elsbeth Biedermann: I think we need to vote on it
[2011/01/31 12:33] Jonno Stromfield: that's the next item on the agenda, Lilac, but i want to hear Kered first, if that's okay
[2011/01/31 12:33] Kered Rickena: does not say we have decided what we want
[2011/01/31 12:33] Elsbeth Biedermann: which will show where the general consensus lies
[2011/01/31 12:33] DeeDee Bookmite: can we say here which we want, just to see how thing are going?
[2011/01/31 12:33] Tori Landau: I agree with Kered, they are expecting only one, but I can check tomorrow.
[2011/01/31 12:33] Elsbeth Biedermann: lays*
[2011/01/31 12:33] Elsbeth Biedermann: whatever*
[2011/01/31 12:33] Kered Rickena: we need to flesh out the 2 /3 plans and vote on them
[2011/01/31 12:34] Jonno Stromfield: so you think we do need to write multiple plans (not talking about submitting them)?
[2011/01/31 12:34] Hennamono Morpork: They need to be more statements-of-intent than plan - short enough to easily digest then vote
[2011/01/31 12:34] Tori Landau: Agree, though would be great if we could reach a consensus before having to do that
[2011/01/31 12:34] Elsbeth Biedermann: agreed Henn
[2011/01/31 12:34] Kered Rickena: yes agree henn
[2011/01/31 12:34] DeeDee Bookmite: which plan seems most popular
[2011/01/31 12:34] Jonno Stromfield: do you think that likely, Tori?
[2011/01/31 12:35] Aseret Quintessa: I think statement of intent is a good idea
[2011/01/31 12:35] Commander Quandry: one round table
[2011/01/31 12:35] Jonno Stromfield: thanks CQ
[2011/01/31 12:35] DeeDee Bookmite: no 2
[2011/01/31 12:35] Tori Landau: we have another 2 weeks... maybe I should start chasing people with a big stick to get involved
[2011/01/31 12:35] Kered Rickena: lol
[2011/01/31 12:35] Elsbeth Biedermann: I can't see a consensus being reached without this vote... we have 3 schools of thought and it seems that there is no clear 'winner' so far
[2011/01/31 12:35] Jonno Stromfield: now take it away for another meeting, please
[2011/01/31 12:35] DeeDee Bookmite: how do we know what way people are swinging
[2011/01/31 12:36] DeeDee Bookmite: take what away?
[2011/01/31 12:36] Jonno Stromfield: the table
[2011/01/31 12:36] Jonno Stromfield: can't see half the people
[2011/01/31 12:36] Jonno Stromfield: thanks
[2011/01/31 12:36] Kered Rickena: gone
[2011/01/31 12:36] DeeDee Bookmite: okay
[2011/01/31 12:36] Kered Rickena: sorry Cq
[2011/01/31 12:36] Tori Landau: Btw, I need to tell you - I'm meeting someone on Thursaday who knows a lot about sandbox sims, any questions, please im them to me before Thurs at 2pm
[2011/01/31 12:36] DeeDee Bookmite: whew that was heavy
[2011/01/31 12:36] Hennamono Morpork: Do we need to know how people are swinging? The vote would answer that
[2011/01/31 12:37] MarionGE Resident: I
[2011/01/31 12:37] Tori Landau: I'm trying to find out as much as I can, but we are rather unique it seems
[2011/01/31 12:37] Hatshepsut Linette: I favour the idea of some form of group facilitators (voted for) on behalf of whole OUtopian community - with regular feeback and re-election at intervals - but as I said I am flexible
[2011/01/31 12:37] Boadicea Apfelbaum: sounds good Hats
[2011/01/31 12:38] Jonno Stromfield: okay, so it seems split into two or thee camps, and get two or three plans
[2011/01/31 12:38] DeeDee Bookmite: okay then no we don't Henn
[2011/01/31 12:38] Commander Quandry: I vote for whatever the majority want
[2011/01/31 12:38] Kered Rickena: ok how about the 3 views put there proposals on the forum and we can see how close they are to each other
[2011/01/31 12:38] DeeDee Bookmite: but you won't know that
[2011/01/31 12:38] DeeDee Bookmite: it is a secret
[2011/01/31 12:38] DeeDee Bookmite: :)
[2011/01/31 12:38] Kered Rickena: cos i think views 2 and 3 aren't that far appart
[2011/01/31 12:38] Elsbeth Biedermann: good idea Kered
[2011/01/31 12:38] DeeDee Bookmite: yes thats an idea Kered
[2011/01/31 12:39] Jonno Stromfield: Sheesh. I don't envy the chairman of the next meet getting consensus on voting.
[2011/01/31 12:39] Boadicea Apfelbaum: why don't we put 3 proposals on forum and have a vote/
[2011/01/31 12:39] DeeDee Bookmite: yes
[2011/01/31 12:39] MarionGE Resident: sounds good
[2011/01/31 12:39] Hennamono Morpork: Agreed
[2011/01/31 12:39] Aseret Quintessa: yes sounds sensible
[2011/01/31 12:39] Hatshepsut Linette: sorry to say I forget the exact details of the 3 plans - been away and no Internet for days
[2011/01/31 12:40] Aseret Quintessa: I forgot them and I read stuff every day Hat
[2011/01/31 12:40] Tori Landau: Regarding forum...I'll have to talk to greg about this as idea was to keep the sections separate for making one plan, I'll ask him tomorrow but I would think it should be ok as long as we keep the threads organised.
[2011/01/31 12:40] Boadicea Apfelbaum: I'm only vague on them myself. How do we get them clearly worded and posted?
[2011/01/31 12:40] Kered Rickena: A The sandbox approach. Almost the entire sim becomes a long return sandbox, where anyone can create anything. A few permanent information centres are added. This was first suggested by Elsa

B The fully governed approach. We create a representative democracy and elect a government who are responsible for everything, a subset holding the technical power. Working groups made up of all OUtopians do the work. CQ and Kered seem to favour this approach, and you can see details of CQ's vision in his recent thread.

C The self-governed approach. Policy decisions are made by OUtopians as a whole, and the working groups of OUtopians are given technical permissions, by the small group of permission holders, to do the things that interest them, building, finance, estate management, etc. Henn and I [Jonno], for example, lean toward this approach.
[2011/01/31 12:40] Commander Quandry: the forum is rubbish for this
[2011/01/31 12:40] Jonno Stromfield: can I ask that we break the conversation here
[2011/01/31 12:41] Kered Rickena: as quoted from the forum
[2011/01/31 12:41] DeeDee Bookmite: we could use CQs forum
[2011/01/31 12:41] Commander Quandry: if (and I mean if) I wrote up my entire plan, with the required voting, review, etc then I will be doing it in world and posting as an attachment
[2011/01/31 12:41] DeeDee Bookmite: sorry chat lag had that posted before you spoke
[2011/01/31 12:41] Boadicea Apfelbaum: thx kered
[2011/01/31 12:41] Jonno Stromfield: I want to introduce another topic, before we hit the details of creating the plan
[2011/01/31 12:41] Tori Landau: We can't Dee, OU doesn't want that, needs to only be OU verified and OU meant it on their forum for several reasons.
[2011/01/31 12:42] Jonno Stromfield: I promise we'll come back to this
[2011/01/31 12:42] DeeDee Bookmite: yes but not an official b=vote
[2011/01/31 12:42] Lilac Lupindo: but pln c...who decides who the permission holders are.
[2011/01/31 12:42] DeeDee Bookmite: kk
[2011/01/31 12:42] Commander Quandry: I would most like to see a write up of A - since I do not for the life of me see how it works with no one doing any adminstration
[2011/01/31 12:42] Boadicea Apfelbaum: go ahead Jonno
[2011/01/31 12:42] Jonno Stromfield: sorry. I want to move on to the next item
[2011/01/31 12:42] Jonno Stromfield: There's a question of whether we only want validated OUtopians to have building rights and if so whether we need another group. Could I ask Dee to lead off on this one.
[2011/01/31 12:43] Hatshepsut Linette: I thinks only verified should have building rights
[2011/01/31 12:43] Hennamono Morpork: Agreed
[2011/01/31 12:43] Hatshepsut Linette: there is the giant sandbox for t'others and small sandbox
[2011/01/31 12:43] Elsbeth Biedermann: agreed
[2011/01/31 12:43] DeeDee Bookmite: I think that since this is an OU social sim and we are trying to keep a hold of it then we (Outopians) need to be the ones that place stuff here
[2011/01/31 12:44] Boadicea Apfelbaum: agreed
[2011/01/31 12:44] Elsbeth Biedermann: yup, Dee
[2011/01/31 12:44] DeeDee Bookmite: I have seen land where there is a free for all and it tends to be a mess
[2011/01/31 12:44] Lilac Lupindo: thatis true
[2011/01/31 12:44] Hatshepsut Linette: it has happened on giant platform too
[2011/01/31 12:44] Hatshepsut Linette: Isis was almost run over by a car one day
[2011/01/31 12:44] Jonno Stromfield: Do those who understand perms think that another group is the best way to do this, or can we use roles?
[2011/01/31 12:45] Hatshepsut Linette: roles are fine
[2011/01/31 12:45] Commander Quandry: we can use roles
[2011/01/31 12:45] Aseret Quintessa: I feel we need a new group
[2011/01/31 12:45] Kered Rickena: but is that the OU definition of verified or ours ie alumni
[2011/01/31 12:45] DeeDee Bookmite: I think people who have completed courses and lose access to be verified if they are long standing Outopians could be added to the group anyway?
[2011/01/31 12:45] Aseret Quintessa: yes I think so
[2011/01/31 12:45] Elsbeth Biedermann: roles are fine, to allow OU verified people to build
[2011/01/31 12:45] Lilac Lupindo: this is where alumni comes into it.
[2011/01/31 12:45] DeeDee Bookmite: yes
[2011/01/31 12:45] Aseret Quintessa: I feel we need a new closed group
[2011/01/31 12:45] Jonno Stromfield: they will probably still be verified according to the OU, they just lose voting access
[2011/01/31 12:45] Aseret Quintessa: for OUtopians only
[2011/01/31 12:45] Boadicea Apfelbaum: roles? what are these?
[2011/01/31 12:46] Hennamono Morpork: I think alumni should be included
[2011/01/31 12:46] DeeDee Bookmite: we can include alumni ourselves can't we Tori?
[2011/01/31 12:46] Boadicea Apfelbaum: getting a bit lost here
[2011/01/31 12:46] Hatshepsut Linette: roles can include ability to terraform
[2011/01/31 12:46] Aseret Quintessa: verified OU how ever they fit into the classification
[2011/01/31 12:46] Hatshepsut Linette: build, send notices etc
[2011/01/31 12:46] Boadicea Apfelbaum: ah thx hats
[2011/01/31 12:46] Jonno Stromfield: but can it distinguish the ability to build or not?
[2011/01/31 12:46] Aseret Quintessa: we have a lot of people who are not OU in both groups
[2011/01/31 12:46] DeeDee Bookmite: yes roles can
[2011/01/31 12:46] Elsbeth Biedermann: As, why do you feel a closed group is required?
[2011/01/31 12:46] Hatshepsut Linette: yes they can
[2011/01/31 12:46] Jonno Stromfield: Hi Shailey
[2011/01/31 12:46] Jonno Stromfield: ty hats
[2011/01/31 12:47] Tori Landau: May I suggest that we ask Greg to set up a vote for this on the website? That way, if people are to be evicted from OUtopia group then it would be a valid decision - I've checked Outopia group's charter and it says that it is for OU staff and students - the charter doesn't say anything about including others , but it is currently open.
[2011/01/31 12:47] Hatshepsut Linette: evening Shailey
[2011/01/31 12:47] Shailey Garfield: Hello all
[2011/01/31 12:47] Aseret Quintessa: I feel that there have been a lot of people passing through OU who have clamied to be students
[2011/01/31 12:47] Aseret Quintessa: and are not
[2011/01/31 12:47] Hatshepsut Linette: sorry Shailey
[2011/01/31 12:47] DeeDee Bookmite: yes but some are people we know who have been part of the community for a long time but maybe because their course has finished can no longer get onto the website
[2011/01/31 12:47] Aseret Quintessa: and I really object to that
[2011/01/31 12:47] Jonno Stromfield: who we let vote and who we let build aren't necessarily the same
[2011/01/31 12:47] Tori Landau: There are Aseret and occasionally it has caused problems.
[2011/01/31 12:47] DeeDee Bookmite: yes me too but I hate to exclude people who have been here but lost access
[2011/01/31 12:48] Hatshepsut Linette: I believe past verified Outopians should always be welcome despite finishing courses
[2011/01/31 12:48] Aseret Quintessa: I want to know when someone claims they are OU they are in fact ou validated
[2011/01/31 12:48] DeeDee Bookmite: no Jonno I am talking about building ie being allowed into the verified group
[2011/01/31 12:48] MarionGE Resident: roles allows us to have a group within a group
[2011/01/31 12:48] Jonno Stromfield: I know, Dee
[2011/01/31 12:48] Hennamono Morpork: I'm sure we all will eventually leave the OU - do we want to condemn ourselves in the future to leaving OUtopia?
[2011/01/31 12:48] Aseret Quintessa: Yes Marion but roles haven't been used so far
[2011/01/31 12:49] Tori Landau: The members of OUtopia group could still be ex-staff and alumni, as they could still be verified, even if they can no longer access parts of the website that they used to, I can put that to greag if that is what is wanted.
[2011/01/31 12:49] DeeDee Bookmite: we have to leave some day Henn, when we grow up :)
[2011/01/31 12:49] Shailey Garfield: I agree Hats and Aseret about alumni and the need to validate
[2011/01/31 12:49] Elsbeth Biedermann: would it not be ok to have, say, OU Guest as the default role when joining OUtopia group
[2011/01/31 12:49] MarionGE Resident: who decides who gets a role title?
[2011/01/31 12:49] Kered Rickena: question who is going to administer these roles
[2011/01/31 12:49] Elsbeth Biedermann: and only when verfied then that status can change?
[2011/01/31 12:49] Aseret Quintessa: no this isn't about excluding Alumin or staff I want all OU included
[2011/01/31 12:49] Lilac Lupindo: why should lumni not be able to vote?
[2011/01/31 12:49] Aseret Quintessa: its about them being genuine
[2011/01/31 12:49] Commander Quandry: It is the default
[2011/01/31 12:49] Commander Quandry: verified OUtopians are in a role for that
[2011/01/31 12:50] DeeDee Bookmite: The OU say they cannot vote on important matters
[2011/01/31 12:50] Boadicea Apfelbaum: so, is OUtopia for students and staff or can anyone hang around indefinitely? How would the OU feel about this?
[2011/01/31 12:50] Commander Quandry: unfortunately the display titles are the same for both roles
[2011/01/31 12:50] DeeDee Bookmite: I think every one should be welcome
[2011/01/31 12:50] Aseret Quintessa: I would be happy for anyone to be here
[2011/01/31 12:50] DeeDee Bookmite: but not have rezzing rights
[2011/01/31 12:50] Aseret Quintessa: nods
[2011/01/31 12:50] DeeDee Bookmite: unless verified
[2011/01/31 12:50] Tori Landau: Anyone can use OUtopia Boa, but the OU only want current staff and students to have a say in what happens to the sim
[2011/01/31 12:50] DeeDee Bookmite: or long standing
[2011/01/31 12:50] Elsbeth Biedermann: so having the group as is and allowing only OU verified roles being able to rez should suffice? no?
[2011/01/31 12:50] Boadicea Apfelbaum: yes, I know Tori
[2011/01/31 12:51] Aseret Quintessa: I feel that OUtopia should be a place we have some security and trust
[2011/01/31 12:51] Jonno Stromfield: So we are talking mechanisms here. It seems we all agree that only validated OUtopians should be allowed to build, but we want the flexibility to include alumni?
[2011/01/31 12:51] DeeDee Bookmite: yes
[2011/01/31 12:51] Hatshepsut Linette: yes
[2011/01/31 12:51] Elsbeth Biedermann: yup
[2011/01/31 12:51] Jonno Stromfield: fine , can we postpone whether that is done by a role or a group for later?
[2011/01/31 12:51] Commander Quandry: We can allow who we like to build
[2011/01/31 12:51] DeeDee Bookmite: I think long standing alumni and tutors ex tutors should be allowed into the verified group
[2011/01/31 12:52] Commander Quandry: it is only having a say that the OU stipulates for. And that is behind their web interface
[2011/01/31 12:52] DeeDee Bookmite: yes
[2011/01/31 12:52] Tori Landau: Does anyone know if that can be set up within OUtopia group as it stands, that the verified could be set to be allowed to build, but the others counldn't?
[2011/01/31 12:52] Hatshepsut Linette: I am pretty sure once we get access to it then yes
[2011/01/31 12:52] Commander Quandry: it can be - but only by group owners
[2011/01/31 12:52] Aseret Quintessa: but that means none verified are in the same group
[2011/01/31 12:52] Tori Landau: ok, ty CQ
[2011/01/31 12:53] Lilac Lupindo: I think it sucks that those of us who have been around since the beginning, just by completing our degree no longer get a say in the island.
[2011/01/31 12:53] DeeDee Bookmite: I think we need a new group
[2011/01/31 12:53] Jonno Stromfield: okay, sorry, but I think we need to move back to the plan.
[2011/01/31 12:53] Kered Rickena: yes with a different role and title
[2011/01/31 12:53] Hennamono Morpork: I've got to go - bye!
[2011/01/31 12:53] Commander Quandry: group owners and adding, removing, etc are all things I would like to know how would be done if Plan A were adopted?
[2011/01/31 12:53] Aseret Quintessa: bye Henn
[2011/01/31 12:53] Hatshepsut Linette: bye Henn
[2011/01/31 12:53] DeeDee Bookmite: bye Henn
[2011/01/31 12:53] Tori Landau: The OU's position is that as they are paying for it, then it's for only current staff and students to decide
[2011/01/31 12:53] DeeDee Bookmite: yes but it is only voting on important issues?
[2011/01/31 12:54] Kered Rickena: Tori yes for voting
[2011/01/31 12:54] DeeDee Bookmite: not day to day stuff?
[2011/01/31 12:54] Kered Rickena: not the use of the island
[2011/01/31 12:54] Jonno Stromfield: okay. Perhaps we should get back to the plan.
[2011/01/31 12:54] DeeDee Bookmite: which one?
[2011/01/31 12:54] DeeDee Bookmite: :)
[2011/01/31 12:54] Lilac Lupindo: lol
[2011/01/31 12:54] Jonno Stromfield: plans, if you prefer.
[2011/01/31 12:54] Tori Landau: yes, not the use of the island, i agree that ex-staff and alumni should be involved
[2011/01/31 12:54] Shailey Garfield: :-)
[2011/01/31 12:55] Tori Landau: be able to use it
[2011/01/31 12:55] Jonno Stromfield: three camps. who volunteers to help write up the sandbox plan?
[2011/01/31 12:55] DeeDee Bookmite: well they can through a verified group
[2011/01/31 12:55] Jonno Stromfield: please, we only have an hour
[2011/01/31 12:55] DeeDee Bookmite: sssssh
[2011/01/31 12:55] Boadicea Apfelbaum: not me I don't like it
[2011/01/31 12:55] Hatshepsut Linette: I cannot see just one big sandbox working without some form of administration as CQ says
[2011/01/31 12:55] DeeDee Bookmite: no I am not keen on the sandbox
[2011/01/31 12:55] MarionGE Resident: can we nominate Elsa? I don't really know what's wanted with that plan
[2011/01/31 12:56] DeeDee Bookmite: sorry lag
[2011/01/31 12:56] Jonno Stromfield: Tori, you are investigating sandboxes, do you fancy it?
[2011/01/31 12:56] Aseret Quintessa: I think most of us aren't keen on the sand box idea
[2011/01/31 12:56] Tori Landau: No, we can't nominate Elsa
[2011/01/31 12:56] DeeDee Bookmite: lol
[2011/01/31 12:56] Jonno Stromfield: I think you are right, Aseret
[2011/01/31 12:56] Hatshepsut Linette: I am happy with partial sandbox but not entire space
[2011/01/31 12:56] DeeDee Bookmite: can we scrap it then
[2011/01/31 12:56] Elsbeth Biedermann: ditto Hatty
[2011/01/31 12:56] Jonno Stromfield: Elsa plan was mostly sandbox with a few permanent areas for info
[2011/01/31 12:57] Hatshepsut Linette: as I said earlier part sandbox, part building for group (validated) and part for individuals
[2011/01/31 12:57] DeeDee Bookmite: yes a sky box like at the ou sim would be nice
[2011/01/31 12:57] Tori Landau: I'm meant to submit the one, final plan... personally, I'm not happy with a complete, utter sandbox idea but will learn more about it works on Thurs
[2011/01/31 12:57] Jonno Stromfield: okay then hands up for the governed plan?
[2011/01/31 12:57] Elsbeth Biedermann: yes Hatty, I am more for that kind of set up
[2011/01/31 12:57] Hatshepsut Linette: sorry missed the bit about info - and put building into 2
[2011/01/31 12:57] MarionGE Resident: we need a proper vote to decide which plans to take forward. Then those that vote for a plan can help work on it
[2011/01/31 12:57] Shailey Garfield: all sandbox would be very sad
[2011/01/31 12:57] Jonno Stromfield: CQ has given you a head start - it should be easy
[2011/01/31 12:58] Hatshepsut Linette: whatever we do will need some form of organisation and facilitators
[2011/01/31 12:58] Shailey Garfield: the space should have some sense of home, some identity, a place you would like to come and scialise
[2011/01/31 12:58] Commander Quandry: why not Tori - Elsa
[2011/01/31 12:58] Hatshepsut Linette: people to do the nitty gritty setting roles etc
[2011/01/31 12:58] Kered Rickena: yes Shailey
[2011/01/31 12:58] Elsbeth Biedermann: Jonno, when you say governed, do you mean more CQ's plan rather than the one you put forward?
[2011/01/31 12:58] Boadicea Apfelbaum: good question
[2011/01/31 12:58] Jonno Stromfield: sorry elected representative government
[2011/01/31 12:58] Elsbeth Biedermann: Lilac apologises, she just crashed
[2011/01/31 12:59] MarionGE Resident: I'm voting details of CG's with the concept of plan 3
[2011/01/31 12:59] Jonno Stromfield: a la CQ and Kered's idea
[2011/01/31 12:59] Elsbeth Biedermann: no
[2011/01/31 12:59] Boadicea Apfelbaum: ?
[2011/01/31 12:59] Tori Landau: I, personally, agree with hats, plus an events space, plus a grided sandbox in the sky
[2011/01/31 12:59] Jonno Stromfield: who wants to help write it up?
[2011/01/31 12:59] Boadicea Apfelbaum: what exactly Jonno?
[2011/01/31 12:59] DeeDee Bookmite: I am in the middle
[2011/01/31 12:59] Kered Rickena: ok but will have to wait till i finish marking
[2011/01/31 12:59] Boadicea Apfelbaum: a democratic govt plan/
[2011/01/31 13:00] Jonno Stromfield: I want some people to say they will flesh out CQ's plan
[2011/01/31 13:00] DeeDee Bookmite: I think we need a few people who have the terraforing rights
[2011/01/31 13:00] DeeDee Bookmite: but I like more inclusive rights
[2011/01/31 13:00] Jonno Stromfield: And as we are short on time that's all I want to hear
[2011/01/31 13:00] DeeDee Bookmite: hmmmm and haaaaas
[2011/01/31 13:00] Hatshepsut Linette: someone also has to organise allocation of individual spaces if we have those - a bit like I do with houses
[2011/01/31 13:00] Boadicea Apfelbaum: is this merely in general terms jonno
[2011/01/31 13:00] Hatshepsut Linette: at the moment
[2011/01/31 13:01] DeeDee Bookmite: Can I ask a question?
[2011/01/31 13:01] Kered Rickena: well as i said before there is not a great difference between the two plans
[2011/01/31 13:01] Tori Landau: May i just remind everyone that the sections on the forum are there for the purpose of writing up - i will check with Greg about how we are to proceed if starting to change that.
[2011/01/31 13:01] Hatshepsut Linette: I agree Kered
[2011/01/31 13:01] Aseret Quintessa: aren't we really talking about taking the best bits of both plans?
[2011/01/31 13:01] Hatshepsut Linette: yes, I think so Aseret
[2011/01/31 13:01] DeeDee Bookmite: yes I think take the best bits
[2011/01/31 13:01] Jonno Stromfield: the difference is that one has a governing body and the other doesn't
[2011/01/31 13:01] Tori Landau: Yes, we are As, good
[2011/01/31 13:01] Aseret Quintessa: nods
[2011/01/31 13:01] DeeDee Bookmite: I couldn't flesh out CQ and Kered's plan as I am not clear on the details
[2011/01/31 13:01] Aseret Quintessa: I struggle with being told what to do thb
[2011/01/31 13:02] Jonno Stromfield: help to do it, not do it all
[2011/01/31 13:02] DeeDee Bookmite: yes me too and always have
[2011/01/31 13:02] Boadicea Apfelbaum: I am confused here. 2 plans? and the details are where?
[2011/01/31 13:02] Jonno Stromfield: in people's heads
[2011/01/31 13:02] MarionGE Resident: CQ's says vote for people then they decide the policies.PLan 3 says whole community decide on policy and delegate to people
[2011/01/31 13:02] DeeDee Bookmite: lol
[2011/01/31 13:02] Boadicea Apfelbaum: thx marion
[2011/01/31 13:02] Tori Landau: Personally, I feel we need a bit of both
[2011/01/31 13:02] Jonno Stromfield: yes, thanks
[2011/01/31 13:03] Hatshepsut Linette: we need folks who can manage the technical issues and they need to be agreed upon by all
[2011/01/31 13:03] Jonno Stromfield: so if we are to write up plans, people have to agree to do the work
[2011/01/31 13:03] Kered Rickena: but with 3 you still need those in charge with the permissions
[2011/01/31 13:03] Tori Landau: From the practical perspective we do need people to... just as Hats has said
[2011/01/31 13:03] Elsbeth Biedermann: agree with Hatty
[2011/01/31 13:03] Jonno Stromfield: okay, I'll help write up plan 3
[2011/01/31 13:03] DeeDee Bookmite: yes so a mix really
[2011/01/31 13:03] Hatshepsut Linette: but then we need ask then to do things on behalf of whole
[2011/01/31 13:04] MarionGE Resident: I think we'll want elected reps for some positions ie. estate and OU rep but delegated groups for other tasks
[2011/01/31 13:04] DeeDee Bookmite: I want to do stuff myself
[2011/01/31 13:04] Boadicea Apfelbaum: plan 3 for me
[2011/01/31 13:04] Hatshepsut Linette: I will try to write up something if I can - but give me a cuple of days - just got back
[2011/01/31 13:04] Commander Quandry: I vote for what the majority want
[2011/01/31 13:04] MarionGE Resident: plan 3 for me with bits stolen from CQ
[2011/01/31 13:04] Jonno Stromfield: so will you help me write it up Bo?
[2011/01/31 13:04] Boadicea Apfelbaum: yes
[2011/01/31 13:04] DeeDee Bookmite: wht is plan 3
[2011/01/31 13:04] Hatshepsut Linette: yes, I liked CQs outline it gave us some focus and things to consider
[2011/01/31 13:05] Hatshepsut Linette: but maybe a bit too formal for some
[2011/01/31 13:05] DeeDee Bookmite: I think perhaps it sounds more formal than meant
[2011/01/31 13:05] MarionGE Resident: I'm away from Sunday but if you email it to me I would be happy to read through and suggest ideas
[2011/01/31 13:05] Tori Landau: If various plans are being drawn up, then as rep, i need to stay out of it - i'd like to help but tbh, feel it would be inappropriate for writing up any particular plan
[2011/01/31 13:05] Hatshepsut Linette: whatever, some people are going to have to be trusted
[2011/01/31 13:05] Jonno Stromfield: yes, hats
[2011/01/31 13:05] Tori Landau: I will of course submit the one that is chosen
[2011/01/31 13:05] Jonno Stromfield: that's part of both plans
[2011/01/31 13:06] Jonno Stromfield: so we have some volunteers to work on one plan
[2011/01/31 13:06] Jonno Stromfield: so I'll post a message on the forum asking for volunteers to work on the others
[2011/01/31 13:06] Hatshepsut Linette: I will happily help Jonno
[2011/01/31 13:07] Jonno Stromfield: that's hats
[2011/01/31 13:07] Jonno Stromfield: thanks
[2011/01/31 13:07] Kered Rickena: i said i would Jonno
[2011/01/31 13:07] Hatshepsut Linette: I am only sorry that I could not do more whilst away
[2011/01/31 13:07] Jonno Stromfield: oh, Sorry Kered, missed that
[2011/01/31 13:07] DeeDee Bookmite: I would help but am not sure which way to swing
[2011/01/31 13:07] Hatshepsut Linette: maybe a couple of us could get together in world to discuss further and write as we go along
[2011/01/31 13:07] Jonno Stromfield: good, so we have the nucleus of two plans
[2011/01/31 13:08] Elsbeth Biedermann: I would offer to help, but I'm bogged down with ECAs and TMAs at the moment I'm afraid
[2011/01/31 13:08] Jonno Stromfield: okay, Els - no problem
[2011/01/31 13:08] Tori Landau: Even if you didn't agree with a plan, you can still help write up by looking at what others have said
[2011/01/31 13:08] Kered Rickena: and tori is going to tell us how a sandbox works after thursday
[2011/01/31 13:08] Jonno Stromfield: yes
[2011/01/31 13:08] Jonno Stromfield: welcome Leo, and it's any other business
[2011/01/31 13:08] Tori Landau: Yes, I am, Kered. Would have been sooner but the person I'm meeting is very busy
[2011/01/31 13:09] Tori Landau: For what it's worth, i've looked at 2 art sims that are sandbox based and they look very ugly and untidy
[2011/01/31 13:09] Aseret Quintessa: nods
[2011/01/31 13:09] DeeDee Bookmite: yes Tori
[2011/01/31 13:09] Aseret Quintessa: I agree with that Tori
[2011/01/31 13:09] Hatshepsut Linette: I feel that way too Tori
[2011/01/31 13:09] DeeDee Bookmite: I have seen other sims and yuck
[2011/01/31 13:10] Jonno Stromfield: That it?
[2011/01/31 13:10] DeeDee Bookmite: so how do we help? On the forum
[2011/01/31 13:10] DeeDee Bookmite: a separate topic for each plan?
[2011/01/31 13:10] Jonno Stromfield: I think the two groups need to post threads
[2011/01/31 13:10] Hatshepsut Linette: is it possible to meet and chat using voice
[2011/01/31 13:10] Tori Landau: When we will have another meeting - next week or 2 weeks?
[2011/01/31 13:10] Hatshepsut Linette: to speed things up
[2011/01/31 13:10] Jonno Stromfield: sure, whatever works
[2011/01/31 13:10] Aseret Quintessa: I think that is a great idea Hat
[2011/01/31 13:11] Jonno Stromfield: 2 weeks, I would say. Can I ask for volunteer to chair a meeting in two weeks time, please?
[2011/01/31 13:11] DeeDee Bookmite: perhaps a bit longer?
[2011/01/31 13:11] DeeDee Bookmite: yes you
[2011/01/31 13:11] Jonno Stromfield: don't necessarily need to dot the i's and cross the t's by then Dee
[2011/01/31 13:11] Boadicea Apfelbaum: I think we need to start getting things done faster
[2011/01/31 13:11] DeeDee Bookmite: I meant the meetings be a bit longer
[2011/01/31 13:11] Jonno Stromfield: Aseret would make a good chair, I think
[2011/01/31 13:12] Jonno Stromfield: not suggesting CQ sits on you
[2011/01/31 13:12] Hatshepsut Linette: I would second that
[2011/01/31 13:12] Aseret Quintessa: lol Jonno
[2011/01/31 13:12] Elsbeth Biedermann: thirded
[2011/01/31 13:12] DeeDee Bookmite: I am not a fan of meetings but there is a lot to discuss
[2011/01/31 13:12] Tori Landau: fourthed
[2011/01/31 13:12] Aseret Quintessa: I am very bossy ;)
[2011/01/31 13:12] Hatshepsut Linette: no problem
[2011/01/31 13:12] Elsbeth Biedermann: we know, miss
[2011/01/31 13:12] Jonno Stromfield: you'll need to be
[2011/01/31 13:12] Elsbeth Biedermann: ;)
[2011/01/31 13:12] Aseret Quintessa: lol
[2011/01/31 13:12] Kered Rickena: thats alright we can shout
[2011/01/31 13:12] DeeDee Bookmite: well you can keep it on topic then
[2011/01/31 13:12] Aseret Quintessa: nods
[2011/01/31 13:12] Jonno Stromfield: thanks, Aseret
[2011/01/31 13:13] DeeDee Bookmite: and only let me speak :)
[2011/01/31 13:13] Hatshepsut Linette: lol
[2011/01/31 13:13] Aseret Quintessa: lol Dee
[2011/01/31 13:13] Jonno Stromfield: Phew. I declare this meeting over.